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I found a Type II triggerguard for my NPM marked N 9. Please don't tell me it's the wrong one as that hammer spring is a tough cookie. What would be a correct band for SN 4310126? It's got a AMCO band on it now. Regards, Rick.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/11/pm1-1.jpg
If your trying to match the trigger housing to be correct for your serial number then the N 9 is not right as it was used about spring time 1943. Your serial number would be closer to the end of production in April 1944. A correct one would be marked N 14 or maybe even N 16. As to your barrel band a type 2 band without the lug unmarked would be correct for your serial number.
I have never seen a picture of a original NPM with a type 2 band. Anybody got a picture of one?
Hello Bruce. Is there any documentation to support this? The guy who sold it to me cited a source that said the type II was correct for my SN. I am not a happy camper right now. Regards, Rick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
Riesch's book says that a type II trigger housing, and a type II unmarked barrel band are correct for your serial number. However, Riesch does not say what N# should be correct for your serial number. Bruce obviosly has the info that would tell what approx N# is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakorick
For SN 4310126 you need an N 16 trigger housing and a type 1 band with the wide sling swivel.
Thanks, however, without a reference on the trigger housing, I'm screwed. Regards, Rick.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ
Sakorick,
BrianQ just gave you your reference, he knows what he is talking about
I have NPM 4259700 it has the original barrel and what appears to be the original TH which is an N16
Rick,
You asked for information, and Brian gave it to you. Then you question "without a reference". In this case, Brian is being your reference. :thup:
You might ask where he found this out? Years of experience and hands on, reading, joining a club. A good club to consider might be the Carbine Club. Then you could consider purchasing the back issues of the newsletters. Too much information to list here. And as new things were found out, they were discussed in the newsletters and updated. Back issues currently are $280. Sounds like a lot, but isn't. That is 34 years of newsletters. Comes out to about $8.25 a year. A bargain. We paid more then that if you total our yearly memberships dues for the same time frame. And the reading will keep you fascinated and busy for quite a while.
Jim
I think what Rick is getting at is, even though BrianQ says this is so, unless it's published somewhere in a book he can plop down on a dealer's counter, it means little. BrianQ knows much, but without accepted references it amounts to little more than an opinion. Newsletters, however valuable, are just a club's newsletters.
Brian has shown little to no interest in publishing a book based on his vast knowledge to be judged by the collecting community. Until that happens, his opinion is only that. Highly regarded, but nothing you can take to the bank. Or a dealer.
Not Me, Mike
Any club, or forum for that matter, is like a community. Made up of members with varied experiences and knowledge.
I wouldn't say "just a clubs newsletters". You might be surprised as to who are contributing members in the Carbine Club. Some of it's members have authored most mentioned books on this forum. "War Baby Comes Home" for one is often mentioned here. Listed in it's bibliography are over two pages that show Carbine Club newsletters as the reference. "The M1 Carbine Owners Guide" recognizes, The Carbine Club, and The Michigan Carbine Club, in it's acknowledgements.
Any book takes years to compile it's information in the format desired. It's a huge undertaking. Not just from the books author but requiring input from varied sources. And as such gives acknowledgments to numerous people. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brian's, or some other names, clubs, listed in upcoming books. I look forward to any and all Carbine books to add to my library. I hope a new one comes out soon.
If someone asks a question on this forum, and gets an answer they don't like or agree with, then try something else. Maybe the CMP forum. Or the other Carbine forum. Buy or borrow books from someone and read up on it yourself. Maybe you will come to a different conclusion then the answer you received. Then you can share your thoughts and opinions with others. Discussions are what makes a forum or club succeed.
Big deal....just buy an N16 and switch it out. It is not hard and another housing is not expensive. Then sell your N9. Problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakorick
First off, I don't and would never challenge the honesty or professional opinions of anyone on this forum. It is clear I need a N16 trigger housing and will try to find one. It just bugs me that I purchased the wrong housing and believed the seller's word that his housing was correct for my rifle. Will someone please post the SN range that would be correct for the M9 housing. Then I can sell it armed with the truth and not make the same mistake the seller made.....I don't want to sell something that isn't correct as my knowledge of the M1 Carbine is that of a true novice. My intent was not to offend anyone..... just tried to find some empirical evidence to support my claim to the seller. Regards, Rick.
I believe Sakorick's request is genuine and actually fair. Unfortunately, as we all know, alot of the finer details of carbine collecting does go FORMALLY unpublished. Yes, the collecting community does have several VERY knowledgeable members (Brian, Bruce, Paul, Jim, - just to name a very few) who are going to take alot of their knowledge and expertise to the grave with them. I have given up hinting and suggesting that certain people write an authoritative book or two. (They won't even listen to the point that you won't need social security with a best seller!) While the CC newletters are great for information, they are not a formal reference - my future grandkids could not use them as an acceptable reference in a term paper in school.
Yes, like so many other semi-serious carbine collectors, I am waiting for certain old farts to die off in hopes that they will leave carbines, paperwork AND their brains to me in their last will and testiment! At that point I plan on publishing a detailed book or two and living without worrying about social security collapsing.
Sakorick, my friend, until that point in time comes, you and I are stuck doing our best to learn what we can without a formal reference. I do agree that you can probably sell your N9 for the cost of a N16 housing. I understand the strong desire to go prove the "supposive expert" wrong because you trusted what he said when he sold it to you. That has happened to ALL of us AT LEAST once - and that is why this group of guys here work so hard to be so open and honest. As far as you having to know the exact range in order to fairly sell it, I wouldn't be worried about it. You are being honest to tell everyone that your N9 was not right for your serial. Those who are looking specifically for the N9 will know that they need the N9 because they would have read the newsletters and ask the experts!
Hope you find one in great condition, just take your time and ask questions if any come to mind. These guys are great - even if they are old and cranky. (Ok, Paul is not THAT old)
Paul is pretty old. :p
I'm not. I'm only 31
Sakorick,
I have this one if you need one, just PM me and I will give you price and postage amount, I do not need it anymore
There you go, problem solved with Rustship's TH.
So let me get this straight. By your account if it's not published in a book it is just an opinion. Once it is published in a book, regardless if it is factual or not, it becomes useful, credible information. Interesting theory, as warped as it may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by phil441
I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for most of the crap published y so called experts in the popular books these days. Too many errors and stuff that is just plain wrong. Heck, even the humpers are writing books about legit carbine stuff now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-M1-Carbine-B...item1c177b33ae
That's correct in the eyes of the counter man down at Joe's Gun & Pawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ
He's likely never heard of the Carbine Club. Chances are he's never read anything by Ruth, Riesch or Duff.
His job is to move merchandise. If you show him a page from a book that none of us would even bother to keep then he has the information in print.
See my point?
is to evaluate the information given by considering the source. Since in one part of a factory a carbine could be assembled and in another part of the same shop at the same time a quite different gun could be assembled, the individuals who have great first hand knowledge and an ample data base available are the opinion givers to listen to. Most of the books did not have this advantage when written ("War Baby" being the exception).
My point is based on two things. First, published material is what is accepted by both legal authorities (courts) and educational institutions as documentable information. Right or wrong, it requires someone to sign their name on it as "the expert". General knowledge and experience does not meet the same standards without the formal documentation. In truth, who does a better job of fixing your car - the young kid at the dealership with the certificates or ole Billybob who worked on your Dad's truck for years? The courts say its the kid with the certificates. I am the first to point out that many published authors don't know their A$$ from a hole in the ground. Anyone remember Dr. Benjamin Spock and his book book entitled "Baby and Child Care"? Thank you Dr Spock for ruining a whole generation of kids!
Second, if you don't like the printed books with all the errors or dated information - then put out something better. I'll buy it - so will others. Take the information to the grave with you and both my AND your grandkids will lose out.
No one has all the information, no one knows everything about carbines, and none of us were the people in the program that produced them 65 years ago. The further away that we get from 1944 the less and less accurate the information will be. Some guys have spent a lifetime learning and collecting - these carbines and their history (remembered right or wrong) will out live us all.
Then type something up on a piece of paper, sign it and hand it to him. That has about as much credibility with the counter man as something printed in a book. Remember "His job is to move merchandise." In most cases Joe the counter man will tell the potential customer what they want to hear to make the sale. Hand him any of the popular references to show he was incorrect and expect a reply similar to, "That is out dated material. This is the one you really need". (Who hasn't heard that at a gun show table before?) Now you're back to square one because, "His job is to move merchandise." Educate the buyer not the seller.Quote:
Originally Posted by phil441
Best line and advice in this whole thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ
I'll second that...Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ