Building a No4T or L42 replica - scope alternatives

Given the price of the real deal I am building myself functional replicas of the No4T and L42.
I have been looking for Weaver K3 scopes but they mostly appear in the US of A and it appears most people don't want to ship internationally or they scopes go for silly prices.
Is there an alternative to the K3 that is more common ? I have looked at new scopes in the 1- 3 x 20 range but it looks like the magnification ring will be interfering with the rings if using a repro mount.
I want the rifles to maintain the original look but I am not trying to get it picture perfect. I just want it to look like the real deal from a distance.
I am up for ideas.

I use the Simmons Whitetail Classic (the one with the straight tube that looks a bit like a No32); I find this an excellent scope in Parker Hale mounts, because it can sit quite low to the rifle bore. The scope will fit in a No32 bracket and more or less gives the right geometry - sometimes the eye relief is a little bit long because the scope has to sit back relative to the receiver.

Another idea, just swallow, grin and bear it and get a heap of pure tat No32 - any mark type will do - plus a GOOD quality repop mount. Get the scope rebuilt and when you do, ask him to make it so that you can use it on both .303" and 7.62mm rifles. It's simple.

Then use the same scope and bracket on BOTH rifles

Thanks Peter. I will sniff about for the Simmons as well. Hopefully have better luck than the weaver.
I have seen a couple of No32s for sale here .. around $1500 AUD which might be hard to convince the wife I need to spend and retain both testes. The idea of using it for both is quite a good one. I can only use one at a time when I think about it. Sarco seems to be the main game in town for the mounts, any comment on them ?

My wife uses a Weaver 4x, as she does with any of the actual period No.32 Mk1 or Mk3 scopes from her Enfield sniper collection. It seems to work pretty well... :)

Reproduction Scope Mount (Sarco Brand) for Enfield No.4(T) Sniper Rifle with Weaver 4x

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG


Enfield No.4(T) Repro Scope Mount (lots more detailed pics ... click here)

Regards,
Doug

xa-coupe, there was a very tatty No32 on Ebay earlier this week. Looked like a Mk1 or Mk2 as it had the brass sunshade.

The tube looked very badly pitted and there was virtually no paint left on it. IThe seller claimed not to know what it was and didn't give any relaibale in fo on the functionality (although he did say that the lenses had minor scratches and that there was no crosshair in it!). It was still running at over £350 last time I saw it - looks like it has gone now!

I run a couple of standard searches on Ebay for:

No 32 Scopes
British Scopes
Enfield scopes
Vintage Scopes

Some pretty interesting stuff comes along from time to time.

Today there are loads of Weavers and Redfields going for not much more than US$30-50

Still there:

WWII ENFIELD TEL-SIGHTING NO 32 MK1 SNIPER RIFLE SCOPE on eBay (end time 29-Nov-10 21:01:09 GMT)

Paul

Don't get it! It has the lead screws missing and from that, it's probably missing the diaphragm (the graticle block assembly) and the cursor slide too. You COULD make them but what a job......................

I want something that would be functional if not pretty .. I don't have the facilities or patience to try and fix something like that. Mind you, at 400 pounds, it isn't than much cheaper than a tatty functional scope.
I am actually seriously considering your idea Peter of one mount and scope. That way I could justify an original.

Try FirearmSales.com.au :: Firearms For Sale & Firearms Directory Search Results

They have an Aussie listing for a 4x Weaver for $100 and another listing for a No32 Mk1 for $1485

regards

Paul

Someone's pointed out that my advice above was maybe a bit hasty. I suppose that if you DID get the telescope and it was only missing the lead screws, you'd be quids in. But if it was missing the diaphragm, nut and cursor (as I suspect), then providing a pattern were available (I'm sure there would be, somewhere on the forum....) one of the forumers who was a toolmaker or even a good machinist could make them in a few hours. He could make 6 sets while he's at it and sell the rest for a kings ransom! Just like me making lenses.............

If it really WAS crap, then just put it back on the auction site!

Just food for more thought

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulseamus

Try FirearmSales.com.au :: Firearms For Sale & Firearms Directory Search Results

They have an Aussie listing for a 4x Weaver for $100 and another listing for a No32 Mk1 for $1485

regards

Paul

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Thanks paul. I do look there and have seen the original. The issue with the weaver is it doesn't have the straigh tube because of the larger objective lens. I want the look if not the 100% originality.
The issue I have with the original is not enough bikkies in the bikkie tin to pay for it :)

I recall that one guy who frequent sthese pages has success with a Kalinka optic. can't remember the exact model (Rodger are you out there?) but it looked very much like a No.32 with a stright tube, and flared optical end and turrets in the right place to fit a replica No.4 T mount.

Try an old Weaver El Paso,Tx blued steel tube. Correct length and with some age patina it looks just great. A Kollmorgen 4X is another fine choice. Very nice optics. Elevation and windage drums biased towards front of scope, reminiscent of the real deal N0 32.

Have you thought of a more modern solution? Maybe a Nightforce compact? Not cheap but nice glass.

I have thought about a more modern solution .. but I would want the mount to make sure it would mount the way the old ones do, the turrets to the front of the front ring. I am being picky I know but I could put any old glass on if I didn't want the correct look.

Weaver K1, K2.5, K3 and Kollmorgen 2 3/4 scopes are my favorite when it comes to affordable scopes for a sniper clone. The Weavers look especially good when they have the brass endcaps.

Weaver K1

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...WeaverK1-1.jpg

Kolmorgen 2 3/4

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...llmorgen-1.jpg

I've seen a few people mention using the Russian PE / PEM scopes as well. There is a seller on eBay that sells new PE / PEM reproductions that are free of markings that would probably do a fairly good job looking the part and have better optics that a vintage scope. It also looks like he is willing to ship internationally.

Here is the link:

Soviet Russian Mosin Nagant 91/30 PE PEM sniper scope - eBay (item 370460143375 end time Dec-25-10 09:10:11 PST)

Thanks to everyone for their ideas, a whole heap of options now. It's a matter of finding one at the right price and the right time.
Searching around shows me there are two different sorts of repro mounts, cast steel and machined steel. The originals look to be machines steel, is this correct?

I'm sure Peter will come on on this but I believe the original brackets were cast. Once they got to H&H some machining was done when fitting to the rifle.

H&H had to increase the cost regarding the brackets due to the fact that once they had virtually production-lined the conversion, they had to do a lot more machining of the brackets. Don't forget that it's not the telescope that is matched to the rifle (- well, it is...., sort of, afterwards....) it is the BRACKET that is matched to the rifle by a) fit and b) collimation.

But back to the subject, I am a firm believer that if anyone is contemplating a good look-a-like No4T, they should start with a BSA No4 and get a set of repro pads (cheap.....) professionally fitted by someone who has done a bit of reading and listens. This is so that HE does what YOU tell him. And I'd suggest that when this is being done, you get your pads set so that they fit your friends original/genuine bracket and telescope combination.

I know that you haven't got a telescope or bracket yet but ONE day, you might and when you do, there's a good chance that with a bit of fitting, you're ready to go.

If you can't do it this slightly more expensive way. Get a repro bracket (cheap), fit a borrowed but centralised (any mark type....) No32 to it. Then get the fitter to set up the pads and bracket so that the telescope aligns with the bore of the rifle. That way you've got the rifle and bracket, all collimated up, just waiting for a half decent scope to turn up.

But whatever you do, don't start by faffing around and drilling and fitting some rubbish old pads to the rifle because when you DO find a telescope and bracket, you've got to start again and buy another rifle to boot..........

Just my views

Thanks for the thoughts Peter.
I am going to order a mount and pads shortly .. early christmas present to myself. One question is, can you collimate a newer scope? I don't see any reason why not but figured as I had your attention ....
I have read and re read your 'how to' on doing the mounts and believe I am capable of doing myself. Worst case scenario is I get cold feet and send everything off. I actually don't know anyone with a genuine No4t or L42 so I would have to wing it. As long as no one minds me asking more dumb questions of course !
Many thanks for everyone's input.

Yep, never thought of that! You could centralise any old scope and use it as a collimator in order to centralise the optical bore of the bracket to the actual bore of the rifle. Just ask as many q's as you like because I know from PM's that there are a couple of others following this thread. If it wasn't so far to send and bxxxxy expensive, and it was really necessary, I'd lendyou a No32 scope to use. Good luck and keep us all up to date

Thank you Peter, I appreciate the sentiment. Once I get everything together I will do a dry run ( mostly in my head ) and see if I have any more questions.

Peter,

This is probably a daft question, but how does one collimate the axis of the tube to the axis of the bore? My understanding (from a friend who's neighbor worked for H&H back in the day) was that they had a special rig designed to do this and I was advised it would be foolhardy to try to reverse engineer it.

Cheers

Axis of the tube to the axis of WHICH bore? The optical axis of the telescope or the true axis of the bore of the barrel. I think that I've mentioned this in a previous thread but if I haven't or it's not clear, just tell me. Any com'u'er li'era'e person out there able to resurrect it? It's quite easy but you've got to make up a small jig. But it can be a cheap one-way-trip jig though!

Hey Longshoar, I've just noticed that you're from Liverpool, NY. Surely there can't be TWO liverpools can there..................?

Hi Peter,

I just want to make sure I'm on the right page here, the goal here is to align the optical axis of the scope with the true axis of the bore of the barrel, correct? I didn't know you had answered that already, I shall commence ferreting...

Hmmm, sounds like I need to take a look at my profile, I'm in Browns Mills, NJ, not Liverpool, NY (I don't even know where that is!).

Cheers

PS - Ferreting completed, found the article on building a No 4 Mk I(T). Just one question. What do I do if my rifle came with the pads already mounted?

So the saga goes on.
I have been working my way through eBay and gunbroker trying to find a nice weaver with a post type recticle.
I thought I had one in the bag last night by putting a bid over the most I have seen one go for. Fail.
It's fun I spose, all part of doing something yourself, the journey is as much fun as the destination and that sort of thing.
I did contemplate waiting and buying a genuine scope buy the cost of the scope alone is about half of a complete no4t. Maybe next year.. Or the year after.
So, if anyone has or knows of a weaver k3, 2.5 with a post recticle for sale, please let me know.i have some watched on auction sites so I am trawling around to see what else may be out there. There isn't a lot out here in the colonies.

A couple of GunBroker references ... :)

Quote:

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Unfortunately, a cross hairs not post reticle ...

WEAVER K3-F Rifle Scope : Scopes at GunBroker.com

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Quote:

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Seller says:

[Information added 10/17/2010 8:45:05 PM]
Beware of this scope !I had sold one of this K3 60B in the past for $300.00!I might stop this auction and change this scope !

Mauser 98 7MM Mauser with weaver K3 60B scope : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

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Quote:

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Guns America - Weaver K3 60-B

Weaver K3 60-B

Attachment 17912

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Regards,
Doug

Gunsamerica? A new site I will have to check out.
Thanks Doug, more sites to spend my money !

They say that what goes around, comes around.......... A few pages ago we were passing comment on a dog of a No32 on that auction site. Well, believe it or not, I've just been asked if I'll fix it. I suspect that it's missing loads of bits so I'll see and let you know!

I knew someone would ask what this left hand side new picture is. It is the mailed fist tactical sign of the 6th Armoured Division, British Army on the Rhine circa mid 50's. Used as an identifying feature on all vehicles and as an arm patch for the men of the 6th Armoured Division. It has recently been resurrected for use as a brigade marking somewhere but on a blue background. Now adorns my Centurion

So .. Peter.. if I buy a Centurion will you fix it up for me ?? :)

Here is a picture of my scope alternative for my T clone project. This is a Weaver K 3 purchased from fleabay for about $40.

did well for $40 .. the ones I see are going for ~$70, more for the post corsshair.

Your search for perfection is over now Grant. Good(?) quality, passable No32 replicas are available. See other thread ... They're here! Reproduction No32 scopes.

So how Good are the Sarco Mounts. Was there yesterday and saw one in the store. Look decent, but wanted opinions before pulling the trigger. As I understand it, the rings diameters are different though.

I recieved my Sarco mount yesterday.
It looks very well made and fits a 1 inch tube fine. There is a gap between the body and the upper part of the ring but that's the way they are meant to be.
Next year I buy pads.

I have had to fiddle with the brightness to get it to show detail.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/sarco1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/sarco2-1.jpg

Here's my Christmas Project - had a little time on my hands and a lot of ideas from this forum and I end up with my 1943 Fazakerley No 4 Mk I complete with Simmons White Tail Classic scope:

Attachment 19071

As to how it shoots - off out to play tomorrow weather permitting so we'll see......:)

Looks the goods! Be sure to let us know how it shoots.
I finally got myself a weaver k 2.5 which arrived this week. I am very impressed with the optics for such an old scope. The pads get ordered this week, when they arrive I will get down to business which is quite daunting. Nothing ventured nothing gained though.

Here's one more:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff019-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff018-1.jpg

Burris 4x Compact.

This is all whetting my appetite.

Range Report:

On a very blustery day at Bisley fired one detail (12 rounds) through the No 4 @ 600yds with the Simmons scope attached and was very happy with the result. I was using commerical PPU 174g
.303 and despite the wind requireing between 7 to 9 minutes of adjustments finished with 4, 5, V, 5. not bad for a 1943 No 1 Mk4 and aging eyesight....... :D

I'd need to call in an airstrike these days to have any hope at hitting something at 600 yards