New to Me Enfield Serial Number Question

I have a question concerning an Enfield I just picked up. It is supposed to be a No 4 Mk2. Five groove barrel, Mk2 style trigger. I was looking for serial number break downs and I don't see what where it falls. Info as follows:
No. 4 Mk2(F)
10/49 PF1482xx

According to one source, this is a Mk1. Barrel also has same number and doesn't appear to have any over stamp in either location. Any help would be appreciated. Looks like a great site and looking forward to continuing the Lee Enfield education.

Thanks

I know its from Fazakerley from Oct 1949 (correct?), but I guess what I'm asking is if this is a Mk2 and if so, why doesn't the serial number start with a 2 or higher number?

Faz No4 production changed from MkI to Mk2 in 1949. I do not recall the first block of serial numbers; however, PF1482xx falls within the Mk2 range.

The post war PF serial number series ran on a straight numeric sequence from PF22xxx up through PF4xxxxx, then on to a different numbering protocol with the UF rifles in '55. Mk.2 rifle production began in early '49. No doubt someone here will be able to provide more detailed info.

S.A.I.S No2 lists post war No4 mk2 serial numbers from PF 218000. This matches another list i have as well

Bindi, those lists need to be updated.
I have a 5/49 Mk2, serial number--PF 104,898 and an 8/49 Mk2, serial number--PF 124,378.
I think 4/49 was the first month of regular Mk2 production.
-----krinko

I found some old notes that stated the start of production was PF118xxx; however, I also have some notes about PF100000 - PF120000 being for South Africa (It is pretty bad when your own notes confuse you :confused:).

krinko, is your PF104898 South African marked?

PF 1 to PF 11000
PF 12000 to PF 217999 are shown as post war Mk1. dont know about the missing thousand. BSA made PS1 to PS 111999.
Were they new rifles unissued upgraded to the new spec and marked as Mk2 not Mk1/2. Or new actions for that matter
Maybe Peter can answer this. Krinko over 100,000 rifles out is a huge variance. Stratton shows a change at the 4/49 at 8xxxx another variance.
ROF made less than 400,000 rifles 46/55 plus the upgrades etc the maths are getting out of wack.

According to our records that I can't seem to find after a tidy up by the librarian, the PF series started at 1 (or PF-1001 seems to ring a bell for some reason) - onwards and upwards to 1955 when the UF55 series started.

No doubt the starting at PF-218000 myth will perpetuate itself for many years in spite of the obvious evidence. That's the trouble with small arms, as I found with the Sten Gun, that once a mythical story starts, it perpetuates itself into fact. A bit like the Bren gun being too accurate. Forward on a couple of years and it was so accurate that snipers preferred one to their sniper rifles............ Yes, I've heard it from a 'sniper'

Another regular little myth that keeps cropping up is that No42 and 53 sights were used on the Winchester sniper training rifle and the Bren gun. What a sheer load of absolute horse manure........ Someone remind me where I can find details of a Winchester sniper training rifle....

Thanks for the replies everybody. I am confused also. I've been searching the site and had no idea there were so many types of Enfields out there. Lucky for me I still have room in the gun safe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knauffj

Thanks for the replies everybody. I am confused also. I've been searching the site and had no idea there were so many types of Enfields out there. Lucky for me I still have room in the gun safe.

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Check the MKL ... ;)

Enfield Rifles (all countries)

Regards,
Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tlvaughn

krinko, is your PF104898 South African marked?

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Yes it is.
-----k.

What does this mark look like and where is it generally located? Waiting on some books to help me out with some of them. Thanks

Answered my own question. U with ↓ inside on top of reciever. Butt stamped with SAN 48xx. So it is a Mk2??

Peter the question is when the No4 Mk2 series started in the PF range. I know you have the information at your finger tips will only take a second to look up.:lol: Will also keep you in the warm office instead outside playing with the toys.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knauffj

So it is a Mk2??

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Per your first post, it is marked "No. 4 Mk2(F)" and the serial number is PF1482xx which falls within the Mk2 range, so it is a Mk2. If you want to confirm this, take it apart and see if it has a hung trigger (see pic below). Top pic is from a MkI/2 and has the hung trigger similar to the Mk2 and the bottom pic is from a MkI.

This reminds me of the old saying, “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck” :madsmile:

Quack!
-----k.

I may be throwing a spanner in the works here but I'm looking at buying a No4 Mk1, its definatly a Mk1, it has serial number PF264508 which seems to be wrong as this thread shows Mk2s with earlier serial numbers.Could they have used the serial number batches out of sequence?

There is a big overlap between the numbers of Mk1 and Mk2 rifles - at least 20,000, just based on rifles I've had through my own small stock in the past six months.

e.g. I've recently sold a No4 Mk1 PF 79,542 (a South Africa import in decent all matching condition), and here is No4 Mk2 PF 59,781 (another South Africa rifle, this time in brand new condition):

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...94475969-1.jpg

I've got PF 26864, No4 Mk2 manufactured 8/49, unissued and as new.

Hello...I just bought an Enfield marked No4 MK2...sn: 2286xx. But mine has the flared conical barrel like the No5 carbine...standard front sight w/wing protectors and the flip-up peep sight in the rear.

Welcome to the forum. A flash hider on a No.4 rifle would be a later non-military modification. More details or pictures would help with an evaluation.

Regarding the Faz/ROF6 made PF serial numbers detailed above. Am I right in assuming from this that there were duplicated PF serial numbers allocated on Mk1 AND Mk2 rifles. This seems (or rather, IS......) totally alien to the numbering sequence. It was my understanding that Mk1 rifle production had ceased in order to change over to the much slower production of the new Mk2 although the 'H' block were still going hammer and tongs FTR'ing

We know that the Fazakerley FTR's that had a lost or missing or indecipherable or illegible number were allocated Y serial number prefixes (that would become YY after the Yxxxxx ran out) as it preceded the War Department lost or missing number prefix of Z and ZZ

The original and lost number batches were allocated by the old MoS at the direction of the recipient, in this case the War Department. After the MoS ceased, that office was taken over by the now Ministry of Defence and still exists. Indeed, they will still issue 'lost or missing' numbers and specify serial number batches, range and prefixes (my L96 is UA 86A-xxxx C) to manufacturers even today.

It would seem quite incredible that a serial number batch was issued twice although stranger things have happened. In fact Mk1 and 2 UK made Brens overlapped for a short while at the V prefix but that was only to allow production to continue unbroken.

In short, anyone got a PF numbered Mk1 in the Mk2 production range............. Can we show any duplication or as near duplication as it's possible to get?