Auto Ordnance Army WW2 copy 1911a1 45acp

Recently in the past few years I been interested in 1911's so i picked up a new auto ordnance army ww2 copy 1911a1 in 45acp for $389. Its an awesome looking 1911 pistol and very authenic looking too. Right out of the box its been flawless for over 500rds now. The new owners of AO is KAHR and there focused on quality for sure. Plus its manufactured right here in wooster,mass. too.:thup:

At the time i was also interested in the Springfield armory G.I. Mill-spec too it was priced at $424. I chose the new AO but went back after the SA G.I. mil-spec model too so i could compare them in the future. My point is when ever i'm torn between two guns i always end up getting both anyhoo.:dancingbanana:

I've had the AO for a few years now and it works perfectly. I wanted a BRAND NEW 1911 A1 that wasn't 65 years old and I didn't have to worry about breaking it. No collectors value and I don't have to worry about wear and tear. The major difference is the AO is basicly a series 70 or 80 Colt with the little safety widjets in the hammer and slide and the Springfield is a Government issue model copy.

Your right its also meets the state of Massachussets compliance with the safety plunger on the slide. Its a really good shooter at a bargain price. I wanted a WW2 1911a1 copy that i could enjoy and shoot.

I too have been looking at both AO/Kahr and the Springfield models. Would appreciate more observations as you shoot both. Thanks, Retired in Oxford MS

I had an AO too ubonf4, and it worked great, with never a problem. I've heard some people put them down but it seems there are always some people who put down any of the 1911's that are priced low. To me it was a bargain, and just plain enjoyable to shoot. Same as Jim, I have a 1911A1 but only shot it once. I could shoot the AO all day without any worries.

1911crazy where do you pick up one for less then $400 as I looked for info and all seemed in the $600+ range. I'm on a different coarse of collecting but a good 1911 shooter for that price would be a great deal and I know my son is wanting a 1911a1 some day soon. Thanks

Hey Dave
That was a 2010 post..... But I'm looking at a AO also after hearing today that Springfield is discontinuing the 1911A1 milspec. I was told they are coming out with something new at the Feb. Shot Show.
If it make's you feel better, I'm looking at close to 600 after tax's for the AO I'm looking at now.:thup:

Thanks AZPHIL. I didn't check but I assume AZ is for Arizona? I called my local gun shop and they are the best when it comes to prices and they said mid $500. they will help me get a 1911A1 and the best price but they are going to the Shot Show in Las Vegas, and will be there for me when they get back. I told them I'm in no hurry. If you go tell the guys from B&H Gun Rack, Dave from Melbourne (the guy who traded them an M1 Garand for a couple pistols) said hi. Bob and John are the best.

I just reread your post and you said Feb so maybe they just said Trade show in Vegas and I got the wrong show. They made it sound like it was this weekend. If it's the wrong show just pick someone else and tell em Dave said hi.

Glad you're getting one Dave. Can't beat the price, and they're so much fun to shoot. I paid over twice that much for the 1943 A1 and have hardly shot it because I don't want to put the wear and tear on it.

Your right there are shooters and there are collectors.

I'll collect a shooter but I'll never shoot a collector. Unless of course he breaks into my house?

I'm 99% sure I wouldn't shoot a collectable firearm but there is always that chance.

Same here, Dave. I'll usually shoot my (few) collectors just once, if that. I have duplicates that are rebuilds for shooting.

I just can't see shooting the snot out of any collectible gun that's made it this long and is still mint condition - I feel I'm just in temporary custody of them anyway.

Imagine if you broke it Harlan?

I have one of their WW2 Parkerized .45's. I have shot several thousand rounds thru it with only some minor issues that were easily corrected. I have no complaints about it and have no qualms about its reliability. If I could change anything on it, I would prefer that it was a Series 70 instead of a Series 80 gun. Its just a Plain Jane vanilla milspec .45 and I am very happy with it.

I talked to my Best gun shop and discussed prices. Would a Springfield be just as nice as the AO and the shop mentioned a Iver Johnson as a cheaper alt. If I could afford a higher end new 1911 do you recommend a Kimber or other maker that is just a cut or two above or are they over rated. I myself like the cheaper replica no frills with the heritage behind them myself but with upgraded functional night sights.

The feedback on the Auto Ordnance seems to be quite positive.
I've been eyeing the AO 1911A1 for some time. Yesterday I got a call that a "100% sure" deal I had on an M1-D and an Remington-Rand 1911A1 went tits up, so I think I will get me an AO on tuesday. Unfortunately the price over here here is a little bit steeper then in the good ole' US of A :-(


@ DaveN: I have a Kimber Desert Warrior and I'm very happy with it, feeds on every ammo, crisp trigger and a very good precision!

I would like to add that in my previous post, I said that I was told that Springfield was discontinuing the Milspec 1911A1. Well I called Springfeild Armory yesterday and spoke to thier customer service and the nice lady on the other end said that "THE MILSPEC 1911A1 IS NOT THE 1911 MODEL THEY ARE DISCONTINUING". I hate getting bad scoop from a dealer!!!
So I think I'm back on the Springfield bandwagon!!!!

I'm very happy with my AO GI clone 1911A1! I went a step further and replaced the stock barrel with a wartime High Standard barrel I had reblued.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0345-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0339-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0342-1.jpg

At the gun shop today and looked at a 1911 made by Desert Eagle for $799. The one I saw made in the Philippines is imported by RIA in Pahrump ,NV. (trade name Armsco) and Chales Daly also has them. Lots of choices if you want a 1911.

Leagleagle I still like the look of your A O in the picture the finish is just what I'm looking for and it's just missing the inspector stamp.

Where could I get a wartime barrel for a 1943 colt/ rem rand that has a 70 series barrel and are they expensive?

Went to B&H and they had Rem R1 $800, an RTI GI $450, Iver Johnson GI $500+, SA 1911 A1 Mil Spec $615 they learned at the show the SA GI is being discontinued. Then I looked at the Kimbers, can you say DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS the two I looked at were Pro carry II $686, and a custom stainless Target full size just under $900. So many choices.

The A O will have to be ordered and the factory is out at this time. And it's in the $600 range so you can see for $86 more dollars I have a Kimber.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveN

At the gun shop today and looked at a 1911 made by Desert Eagle for $799. The one I saw made in the Philippines is imported by RIA in Pahrump ,NV. (trade name Armsco) and Chales Daly also has them. Lots of choices if you want a 1911.

Leagleagle I still like the look of your A O in the picture the finish is just what I'm looking for and it's just missing the inspector stamp.

Where could I get a wartime barrel for a 1943 colt/ rem rand that has a 70 series barrel and are they expensive?

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I got this HS barrel on Gunbroker for..$150ish if I recall.

While out running errands after work I stopped at a different gun shop and to my surprise was able to and did order a Kahr/ Auto Ordinance 1911A1PKZ. It will be here next Wed/Thur. All for almost $100 less then the ones I saw on the internet sources. Be mindful that a he gave me a DAV discount as the store is run by VETS. I was contemplating $750 for a custom (5inch) Kimber but got the AO for $566 out the door. I be very happy thus far.


The others were $600+ FFL fee+shipping+ tax so all in all I'm glad I waited.

These guys show it in stock.

Auto Ordnance 1911 Pistol .45 ACP 5in 7rd Parkerized for sale - 1911PKZSE - Tombstone Tactical

So Dave! Did you pick up the AO yet?
I would like to hear what you think about it and how it shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AZPhil

So Dave! Did you pick up the AO yet?
I would like to hear what you think about it and how it shot.

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I am also anticipating a report. The A-O GI pistol used to have a problem with the front strap being too "square," which resulted in too much exposed flat in the sides forward of the grip panels. Springfield's GI replicas used to have this problem, too, but Springfield corrected it about a decade ago. I'm curious to know if Kahr/Auto-Ordnance has figured this out yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AZPhil

So Dave! Did you pick up the AO yet?
I would like to hear what you think about it and how it shot.

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Took it to the indoor range and it shot very good. All targets were killed on the 1st shot at 25ft. It felt comfortable. The only prob was last round didn't feed on about 5 of the ten mag changes.( I have 6 new military surplus 7 rounders) I think it was the mags as its hard to limp wrist this heavy beast. I don't expect tight groups with these prehistoric sights but all were on target and once I got the feel I was able to group some tight ones ( les then 2 inch )

AB, I must have missed your comments. To answer your question I don't think they corrected the problem you are talking about. I took the 1943 Rem Rand and compared it to the new AO and they are not the same. The AO has about an 1/8 inch flat area from the front of the grip to the start of the round part of the front strap. Until you pointed it out I didn't even notice the differance, but now it's really noticeable. I still love this new gun it's one of my favorite hand guns. Like my jeep plain and utilitarian.
On this thread there is a picture of the AO and you can see the the flat spot you mentioned in the pic. Mine is the same.

Just tripped over this thread, and thought I'd pile on. I was looking for a shooter, but something as close to a WWII 1911A1, with no bill board markings, and as close to the experience as I could get.
I like the minimalist roll markings ad such, small sights, lanyard loop, lots of the small touches.

I haven't been able to swing a nice USGI 1911A1 collectible to date. And when I finally do, I think I'd be a bit hesitant to put a lot of range time on it. So over the last 2 years, been loving the Karh AO 1911A1. As accurate as my Pony 1911, sights one both are very well regulated with 230ball.

The reason to pile on here is, I've seen soo much ill written about it in other forums (was happy not to see that in this thread), cause the AO carried a bad rep from the time it as a Numrich part bin gun and it was a mess of a gun. Seems Karh has done a nice job of turning this nice repro around... I had a FTF problem that stuck around after break in. Karh AO turned it around within a week for me, sent it out Monday. Thursday back in my hands, perfect since.
Bottom on is my Karh AO.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/1911x3-1.jpg

Looks like your ready to go. You can be on my team.

By the way you are talking about the top one? What is a GSG? Who makes it? What country? How does price compare to the others discussed here? Details if you have the time. Thanks.

And I to can hardly wait to show of my new WWII 1911 when I find the one I'm looking for.

Tnx!

One of the family photos.

The top one is a 22lr .
Germany.

http://www.americantactical.us/1612/detail.html

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...210M1911-1.jpg

Every thing works like a normal 1911 , but for one section of the take down.
There's one screw to remove and a pin. they lock the lobe on the barrel to the frame, relatively the same lobe that would be on the swing link, but on the GSG 22 it's integral to the barrel.

It's "odd to shoot" feels like a 45, works like a 45, and pull the trigger, and it's just odd to here the little "poof" and the ner nill re-coil and light action of the slide to the 22lr from this "45" your holding. But a blast to shoot at about 1/10 the cost for ammo.
I had two ACEs to pick from, I could have picked up one of 'em, but didn't have the funds for either. At the time the CMP ....... need say more, ... anyway the GSG is about 1/4-1/5 the cost of a ACE. But of course not the same level of pistol either, but fun non the less.

I have settled on the AO 1911. A friend has one he want 450 for it. he has shot maybe 2 mags through it. The big question is how do you tell it is one of the new AO's that is machined and not one that is the old forged frame? I know nothing about 1911's so be nice to me I am trying to learn.

get the serial number and call Karh Arms.
Find out when it was manufactured.
It was Karh that started offering their version of the AO1911A1, as discussed above.

IIRC Karh bought AO back in 1999.

The version that has gotten all the bad rep, and deserving so, was originally made by Numrich when they owned AO, it was a parts bin gun POS.

The old AO use to cast their frames in Spain.
A 1911 forum member reported, after speaking to Karh, that the slide and frame is milled in factory in Worchester Mass from a solid bar of steel right here at the Worchester Mass factory from German steel.

A quick google search...
found a review from 2007 for the newly introduced Karh AO1911A1...."A few years ago the brand was owned by Numrich Gun Parts Corp. West Hurley, New York. Quality of Auto-Ordnance firearms under Numrich's stewardship is generally regarded as questionable. Kahr Arms bought Auto-Ordnance in 1999 and, from what I understand, the quality was improved upon. "

The one I bought says Worchester Ma. On the frame , which may be a dead give away, I'm just saying. I don't know what the early guns had on them. It doesn't say kahr anywhere.

yea mine too, so maybe your right..
IIRC , the early ones from Numirch AO, had some billboard type marking on it anyway...

did some googling....

this rings a bell as they were before Karh.. very different than the nice repro style markings Karh is doing...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c_calibe-1.jpg

Ah found a nice posting about the pre Karh AO 1911's, the Numrich parts box guns, ...

" “ West Hurley” Thompsons "

yea, isn't that where numrich was ?

From....
http://justdandcomments.blogspot.com...-standard.html

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t_Hurley-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...AO_logo2-1.jpg

Quote:

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..."...This is an Auto-Ordnance “Thompson” line of 1911 style pistols. Thompson pistols are still being made under their current owner Kahr Arms. This particular one pre-dates that acquisition and is sometimes called a “West Hurley” Thompson, named after the manufacture city of its time."
..."...
In its early years of production it was made from military parts on a Essex frame and slide with a commercial colt barrel. Production then moved to cheaper "market" parts that gave the gun a poor reputation for quality. This transition into cheaper parts started in earnest after SN 4000 (1983). Some online research puts this gun back into 1987 or possibly 1986.Kahr Arms has been improving the quality of the Thompson since its purchase."

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---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeagleEagle

I'm very happy with my AO GI clone 1911A1! I went a step further and replaced the stock barrel with a wartime High Standard barrel I had reblued.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0345-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0339-1.jpg

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Compare that with "LeagleEagle" pix.. very different markings... said it before, sorry for repeating, but I like the repro style of the minimalistic markings Karh decided to go with. No billboards.

Just two more, to compare markings.

From Karh's AO website.......

Auto-Ordnance 1911PKZMA - Style # 1911PKZMA, Tommy Gun Shop / Firearms


Karh AO, new...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1PKZSEjp-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...PKZSEjpg-1.jpg


Numrich AO , old .....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t_Hurley-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c_calibe-1.jpg

Good job ramit that should help

clear as mud. now I am properly educated! Thanks guys.

Interesting to compare it with a GI Ithaca I recently bought:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0345-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0339-1.jpg
Ithaca
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00164-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00166-1.jpg

It was mentioned earlier that the area in front of the grip on the original curves immediately and the replica has a flat strip before it curves. I have both and will measure to see if it is the grip is narrow ,which should be easy to check?

Yes, you'll find the current Auto Ord has a much deeper grip then the standard 1911s had. You can see it immediately when examining it with standard grip scales. You can tell in the dark because of the feel. More of a handful.

Checked the grip. Compared it to the 43. The plastic panels are identical the AO is just bigger and your right it feels bigger but its something I can live with cause I really like the way they kept it simple and as similar to the real thing.

Interestingly enough, here is a Union Switch and Signal 1911A1 that was sold on Auction Arms. It seems to have the same flat area right in front of the grip.
http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...emnum=10909239

Very interesting? Similar to some of the slight differances that the different Garand makers had. Wonder why US and S had what looks like a different 1911 and if AO used their 1911 or their plans to make their copy? Glad to know my AO has a little more resemblance to an actual WWII 1911. Can hardly wait to find the real MaCoy and have the money to buy it.

I should have hands on a AO 1911 This weekend it is stamped as being made in Md so tha tis a good thing. will report next week.

I purchased my new Auto ordnance army WW2 copy 1911a1 in '05 for $389 we hammered it non stop for 250rds per outing and its been flawless right out of the box. My dealer had stacks of these new AO's and the '05 new springfield GI Mil_Spec as it was called back then. I was torn between the two but purchased the new AO first then went back and purchased the new springfield too for $424.

Both new 1911's preformed flawlessly right out of the box. I did install the full length guide rod kit with the 18# recoil spring in both new 1911's.

Seeing this still proves we can still get a decent low budget 1911.

The new AO 1911 has an investment casted 4140 steel frame and a milled from bar stock 4140 steel slide. After 250rds there is no noticable wear yet.

All the springfield armory 1911's are forged steel frames and slides.

BTW; I was gun shy with purchasing the new AO but what the heck after purchasing three new top shelf 1911's that didn't function right out of box what more can i lose?? After not having a functionable 1911 I purchased a well used norinco 1911 and it showed me what all the 1911 hype is all about. Then soon after my new AO was purchased next. The new AO was the fisrt new 1911 to function right out of the box for me. It broke my 1911 curse. Since then i purchased every educational dvd and vhs video to learn how to work on the 1911 to repair them, tune them and tweek them for performance. I then used my norinco as a build platform. She now shoots 1 clover leaf per 8rd mag at 25yds using wolf ammo.

Sorry been off line for a bit. I put my money down on the AO 1911 should have it soom. It is on a lay away program righ now. I did have hands on it and it looked great and felt good. I do need to replace the hand grips. will send in a range report when I get it. It for sure is the newer version made in MA.