I have a dot 44, the extractor has, what has been described as having "plum patina". Did it leave Brunn like that, or what causes this? I think it looks good like that myself. Merry Christmas, Matt
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I have a dot 44, the extractor has, what has been described as having "plum patina". Did it leave Brunn like that, or what causes this? I think it looks good like that myself. Merry Christmas, Matt
different types storage packing grease have different chemical make-up's and after applying and storing away for who knows how long will cause a color variation to the original finish
A picture would have been helpful!
There are two possibilities
1) A dull surface: the so-called
- which is the expression used by those dealers who like to think of themselves as "purveyors of fine antiques to the discerning gentry", rather than as sellers of old tools of a military nature, to describe what the rest of us would call "old bluing going to rust".Quote:
Originally Posted by hcso617
As already said, the bluing turning to plain rust.Quote:
Originally Posted by hcso617
OR
2) If it is a bright, translucent surface:
SOME some Mauser parts had a different steel alloy to the rest of the bolt assembly. And these turned a brownish color when they went through the same heat treatment as the "standard" steels (whatever that was). I have one such, on a Gew98 system, and have seen the same on other 98-family extractors and the triggers and safety levers on Lugers (including my own). But this is not a patina, it is a "bluing" from the heat treatment that came out brown! You can see the difference, because the "browning" is translucent, like bluing.
Not unless it was the "browning" kind of bluing. Any so-called "plum" patina is dull. Like rust. Because that is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by hcso617
:wave:
I've seen a few K98k's with this sort of heat treat colour on the extractor, but most of them seem to be on refinished "Russian Captured" rifles. On RC rifles I think it's just bluing gone wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
I have a Soviet TT33 pistol dated 1937 and original.It has a plum slide and never refinished. All it takes is a bit too much nickel in the alloy to produce said results. I'll take a picture later. Gary
My RC has a plum colored extractor. It's not rust, it's the color of the metal. Same thing on the flat side of the ejector/bolt release cover. Both are a light reddish purple color, translucent, like bluing but not nearly as dark.
Mine is also a dot 44 and photos have been posted here:
Russian Capture k98
I believe it's the makeup of the steel used in the extractor that makes it accept the blueing differently than other parts of the rifle. I've got definite "bringback" mausers that have this anomaly. Italian Beretta 34 & 35 slides often appear plum for the same reason.
Those pistols are one of the few milsurps where plum colouration is considered correct for a "blued" part. Otherwise "plum" is only good as a tempered spring heat treat side effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Len
Ruger rifle receivers (No.1s and M77s) were sometimes plum coloured from the factory, but I don't think it's especially pertinent. Just "heading it off at the pass"...
ETA: Other "plum" springs that come to mind which sometimes appear to be correct: 1871 and 71/84 Mausers. Ross rifles. Not much else...
That and some old Michigan Armament 1911 slides:ugh:. (Which aren't springs, obviously!)
Aragorn, that's it. Thanks for the info men. Merry Christmas, Matt
It is a combination of the hardness/alloy of the steel plus the condition and temperature of the bluing salts at the time it was blued. The plum color will show up from time to time on Mauser P.08 receivers, and is a result of the condition of the bluing solution. This does not happen with rust blued weapons.
Model 1897 Winchester receivers and barrels were notorious for turning plum colored when reblued in hot salt blue and is mostly the result of the nickel steel alloy they were using. The original finish on the Model 1897 was niter blue on the receiver and rust blue on the barrel.
This is a byf44 with a very plum extractor.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/9fmqm0-1.jpg
Yes, that's exactly how the extractor looks on my Gew. 98 bolt.
But please note, this is the original finish - whether or not intentional - and not a "patina". A patina on metal is a surface that develops slowly, usually as a result of (partial) oxidization, and is therefore normally dull. On wood, patina development is much more complicated, because of chemical interactions between the wood and materials applied to the surface (oils, shellac, varnish etc.) and their slow reaction to humidity, temperature and light.
In the field of old guns, a lot of what is hyped up as "patina" is just muck and corrosion resulting from lack of care. That is not the same thing at all as the patina that develops on, for instance, a piece of antique furniture that has been regularly polished over a couple of centuries!
And a splendid Christmas to you all :wave:
Plumb patnia is a result of the bluing salts degrading to the point where they will not blacken metal.
Some extractor coloration photos. Sorry, no Russian rework example! :
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff014-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff013-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff012-1.jpg
Neither of the above rifles have been refinished, BTW. Might be able to round up some more, but none have that common Russian hue!