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What is the thought on this one?
I sent a question to the seller to see what is on the inside.
The buttplate looks to be a later type, but the stock looks correct.
M1 CARBINE "42" INLAND w/H/W I-CUT STOCK : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com
The pics need to be a little closer for good detail.
Dave
Its interesting, the little symbol is there on top of the stock near the receiver, known to be on early Inlands, but who knows whats inside
usgicollector: Did you get an answer from him about the interior pieces?
I asked about a return policy and never heard back. thanks
Return policy not listed...scary
CCNL #184 Square pattern buttplate on 25k Inland
CCNL #257 Diagonal pattern buttplate on 24k Inland
CCNL #282 Square pattern buttplate on 18k Inland
So, if these are all righteous, the transition discussed in CCNL #346 appears to already be under way when the Gunbroker carbine was being put together, making either type correct (and a candidate for original). Barrel dates are as expected. The two lower numbered rifles have long barrel skirts, so no delay for rework of that feature. 25k does not report on skirt.
New pics added, trigger housing looks rusty, worn, around correct early retaining pin..but it looks rusted? Rust on hammer spring plunger/spring too
It looked better before he opened the hood!Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandrew
Doesn’t it also look like some pretty serious rust between the front of the receiver and the slide box in the last picture? And, doesn’t the Parkerizing (if that is what it is) on the top of the receiver look better than would be expected after seeing the inside?
Carbine collector in training.
John
My thoughts exactly, thats why the pics werent posted earlier
Does anyone know who the seller is?
I'm probally in anyway.
I asked about return policy but never heard back, that would keep me from bidding.
Current high bidder must see something about this gun he really likes. He’s bidding against himself…. not really but he has bumped his own bid twice.
backing his bid up
I do see a small ordnance escutcheon in the sling well, its an early stock, its got the early trigger housing retaining pin with spring, however water got into it at one point..its rusted Whatever caused the corrosion, is a pity
He's not bidding against himself. It's the proxy bid system upping his bid when someone else bids higher than the current posted bid but not as much as the high bidder entered for his maximum bid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Powder
Right Brian, thats still backing his bid up, as hes bid higher than the current price, when someone else bids, it raises above their bid, he could have bid 4K
Obviously you don’t understand how the proxy bid system works.
I think you bid your highest? It bids on your behalf, while youre busy?
Why??? :banghead:
If you really want something, and you cant be watching, you need to boost your most generous offer
I think the proxy bidding is the older time stamp bids, but he us also raising his maximum bid. That is why you get the older and newer time stamps on the bids. I went to 2450 as that is all I can do right now and the proxy bid went to 2500 over me. Then a few minutes later the high bidder puts in a higher max bid. There were no bids between mine and the proxy as he was still the high bidder then another bid from him tells me he was upping his max bid.
Dave
Thats what I do..thats how I got the minty early UEF
I'm sorry guys...poor choice of words on my part. I understand the bidding process and proxy bids. I was just pointing out that the bidder must be very serious about wanting this carbine. So much so he reconsidered the maximum amount he is willing to pay 2 times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Powder
John
I would do the same thing if I had the cash in hand. If he gets it for the bid now he did well in my opinion.
Others may think differently, but then he bought to early not to much.
I have been reading all of the back issues of the CCNL's and find it funny in today's pricing that guys were complaining about them being to much and prices climbing almost as soon as the newsletter started.
Just remember, to early not to much!
Dave
I do think its original, but just not in great shape, you dont know how deep the corrosion is, and it will leave pitting, its too bad, but its got alot of early features, including the stamps in the slingwell, and the symbol on top of the stock, left side, near receiver ring, its on mine too, early T/H pin, assembly
---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------
Maybe its a restoration, who knows?
Dave,Quote:
Originally Posted by usgicollector
Is that to say he will be paying more than the gun may be worth in today’s market but in time it will be worth that much or more. Buying today at tomorrow’s prices! That makes sense.
John
Okay, he popped the hood, will he open the bag?
Herc,
That is exactly what I am saying. Spend whatever you can or want to on a collector piece.
You only will lose money if you sell quick and bought way to high or the government changes the laws.
Dave
Gonna be a bidding war
Looks like the winner is mattymattel, he has been discussed here before.
Don't know him, but he likes early Inlands and buying questionable items.
Two have been discussed here before.
Looks like he got a good one this time.
Inland M1 Carbine 8-43 Mint original US WWII rifle : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
Inland M1 U.S. Carbine Riffle : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com
WW2 Early 9-42 Inland M1 Carbine Hi Wood I Cut ! : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
It does have a few issues with internal condition, but could clean up,
Mine is a bit later, 209K..what would it sell for? Better shape
He was fooled by the rifle I eventually ended up with too. The first one mentioned in the above message. I decided to keep the carbine as it will be a good quality shooter. I imagine he will try to send this one back too but who knows.
He is suspect...if he drove up the price, he may have done that so next in line will pay a bit less, after he returns it, perhaps to a friend, in a shill bid??
Auction closed, but due to interest shown in this thread, contents have been archived with pics here for posterity and future member's research.
Regards,Quote:
M1 CARBINE "42" INLAND w/H/W I-CUT STOCK
Sold for $3,675.00
Seller's Description for Item # 207770786
This is a very early production Inland carbine,with a receiver serial number 32798 and a barrel date of August 1942.This puts it at the very beginning of production.This carbine has a very nice highwood I-cut stock,with the flaming bomb and cross cannon cartouche.It also has the circle P.It has the original flip sight with s marking and front sight with n marking.It has the old style push button safety and original butt plate.It has no import markings and a very good bore.It comes with two military clips.I will ship this gun to the winning bidders FFL or C&R,please make sure that your dealer will accept transfer from a non-FFL holder.No California sales,thanks.
[Information added 12/22/2010 2:33:02 PM]
The barrel is INLAND marked 8-42.
Doug
Easy to see what happened. Second place bidder tried three times within a minute to become high bidder, raising his bid $200 per try. This was about eight minutes before auction was scheduled to end. All this did was push matty's winning bid higher. He never got passed, so his max bid was higher than the other guy's when he gave up. The loser is no pal of matty's. If matty doesn't pay, the guy is out an extra $400 if he wants the gun.
it is in really nice shape. I just don't understand that at all; like rust adds to its charisma? I wonder what the early age adds to its overall value? 30%? My original 5.6 Win looks more valuable by the second.
Years ago I sold a rare Pinball machine on ebay and two guys wanted it badly so they put a shoot for the moon bid on at the same time very close to closing time. It jumped from $3500 to $6100 in 15 seconds. Still a big time record for one machine, but I'm sure they thought it would go for much less. A totally original unrestored 1950 Gottlieb " Knockout " with a perfect Roy Parker backglass. The highest price ever for a single machine.
Here's the link to that auction again.........
M1 CARBINE "42" INLAND w/H/W I-CUT STOCK : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com
A fellow member brought this to my attention.......
Quoting him .......... "look at the feedback both left for each other --this is very
stinky--auction ends on 12-29 in PM, mattel matel is Arizona--so with
Holiday on Sat funds and ffl to SC ?? and gun to AZ on today???" End Quote.
Auction Ended Wednesday 12/29/2010 2:15:40 PM ET
Buyer- Mattymattel leaves feedback on Friday afternoon 12/31/2010 4:56 PM
Seller- allenguns leaves feedback for Mattymattel on Friday 12/31/2010 5:14 PM
Payment and delivery requirements listed by seller....
Payment Methods Money Order / Certified Check, Personal Check,
Sales Tax Seller does not collect sales tax
Shipping Ground: $40.00
Inspection Period / Return Policy Unspecified
Item Condition Used
Requires FFL? Yes
Am I correct that Scottsdale, Arizona is currently 3hrs behind EST time? Meaning that auction ended in AZ at roughly 5:15 pm, Wednesday the 29th. If I'm correct about the time, lets say payment was shipped out first thing on the morning of the 30th (Thursday). The payment along with FFL papers get to Duncan,South Carolina and this carbine is Ground shipped to Arizona by Friday the 31st?
Even if the payment was wired and the FFL papers faxed, How did that carbine get there so fast ??
If your wondering about Matymattel's address, I pulled it from his past completed auction. Remember the 9-42 Inland serial #26058 he paid Sam-T-Bob $2,052.00 for... both left positive feedback, then Matty sold it for $1,600.00, a loss of approx. $452 plus fees. Here's that auctions link....
WW2 Early 9-42 Inland M1 Carbine Hi Wood I Cut ! : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
.
Mattymattel used the Scottsdale,AZ address for this listing.
His purchase for this same carbine from S-T-B has timed out on GB, but information about the sale is listed in this past forum link, in a posting by me (painter777)... My First M1 Carbine. 1943 Inland
Thoughts now?
Charlie-painter777
Different serial numbers...I did business with a guy in AZ named Perry, who had me ship the rifle overnight, a WRA from mid 1944, he paid 5k, then paid an extra 200 to get it there next day, from CT..is this him?
Damn, with all the wonderful homework you fellas are putting into this and someone still gets burned than shame on them. Thanks to you for trying to point out the humpers, shillers and such.:super: :cheers:
Actually...we were right..Matty Mattell is my buddy Perry..
He is a very good guy, I like him alot, and I am trying to get him to join the CC
He has bought several early Inlands..
I wont give last names, but hes an accomplished author..He loves early carbines, but collects Garands too...
If I can get Perry to introduce himself, you will see, hes a knowledgeable collector
He stated this about the early inland he got;
"As you can see, I picked up that 8/42.
I could just tell it was right as rain...
And it is...All internal parts were perfect for the time. This one was never screwed with.
V Notch Extractor, early f pin, straight trigger spring, "OI" in circle marked bolt, shield marked hammer, Early housing with milled out front and flaming bomb, spring take down pin, dulite finish. Even had it's original 42 dated sling and early clip. etc.. Pretty amazing example really."
Andy
42 dated sling?
Ive asked him about that
Hello Gentlemen and fellow collectors,
At the urging of my friend Garandrew (whom I hold in high regard), I have joined your fine forum. I've read the comments made about this particular rifle and indeed, I am the one who purchased it. I will update my profile soon, but for now I'll tell you I've been collecting seriously for only 5 years now. I've crammed as much as I can in that time due ot sheer enthusiasm and love of these historic artifacts. I will now attempt to briefly address some of the concerns about this particular early Inland example I obtained recently. I'll address the ?? as I remember them..... First, the question of "How did I get this gun so fast?" Well, if you know me and have ever sold me a gun, you'll note I immediately request express mailing of all my guns. I also express mail the payment. A quick study of my Gunbroker feedback (been there 10 years) will kinda give you that idea. I don't like my shipments bouncing around for weeks not to mention I'm just plain excited to see it. I can also tell you that there was something awfully right looking about this example that I could see from the images even without seeing the internal images provided later. Like many of you, I was concerned about the "rust" also. Who wouldn't be. But I went with my gut on it , and it turned out to be the right decision. I haven't always come out a winner (case in point, 9/42 inland purchase earlier this year..) ...... 2nd concern: The internal parts look rusty??? Well, actually, in reality, it was more like a rust/mold combination caked on some areas. I can tell you it cleaned right off and in some cases left that familiar patina, but NO, I mean NO pitting whatsoever. I was incredibly happy about that, because that was the clear gamble I was taking. 3rd concern: "Bullish bidding"... INdeed, I am agressive on the ones I want to win because it takes so long to find authentics as you know. My bidding history will show you that. And also like many of you, We seem to have to "browse through thousands" to find that one right gem. To me, this one is one of those gems. 4th concern: Did all the interior parts come up right? I can assure you, each and every single part came up exactly as it should be for it's time of mfg. I have a list of all parts ID for this one down to the springs, and every one are completely correct. I sent the complete list to Garandy and I'll gladly send to anyone that asks. 5th concern: Why is the buttplate "later and of vertical/horizontal pattern?".....well, this FINALLY seems to be getting straightened out. A couple years ago, I also picked up a "right" 111xxx Inland which also had what most thought to be a "later" buttplate. The incredible new Carbine book by Roger Larson points out that the plates were mixed after the very earliest examples... Harrison's book always mentioned it. The fact that these plates have not been "swapped out" is a great thing as many collectors who believe they had to be "diagonal only" would've swapped out these plates and changed their historic correct status. I'd appreciate any comments on this or anything else. And to the gentlemen who referred to me as "dummy" in your heading, I can only say that I'm sure you spoke out of complete ignorance. Common courtesy is appreciated and should be afforded to those who are less informed. I'm only a student of this hobby. I'm not a master of it. I'm interested in learning what is true and accurate for the sake of pure enjoyment and respect of the hobby and field. Certainly not to gain some lofty heady status that lords their knowledge over others in belittlment. In my profession, I am the author of 8 different books on the subject of Collectible Beatles Memorabilia. I am considered an expert in that field. I learned early on to remain a teachable student in that field too. Even after 8 books and 30 years. I welcome newcomers and I never forget I was one once. How we treat them insures a nice future for the fields. Anyway, there you have it... I"m open to any questions about this gun or anything else. Thanks Garandrew for inviting me over. My best, Perry
p.s. Indeed, the sling is khaki, and is marked "S.M. Co. 1942"
See what I mean? Perry is quite a guy, and gracious with information.
Andy
Congratulations on your acquisition. Could you tell me if that is a narrow buckle or a wide buckle on that 1942 dated sling. I would be very surprised to see a wide buckle on a sling with a 1942 date.
Hello Newscotlander,
Thanks much.
It is a wider buckle. The best source for verification on what soldiers carried are 42 vintage dated photographs. Based on those images found on web pages, books, etc. the commonly perception that only narrow buckles are from 42 don't seem to hold up. In fact, I do see the narrower buckle, but in far less numbers. In Roger Larson's book, he shows the round metal and flat metal wider buckles are correct for the earlier khaki slings. He also mentions the narrow buckle was in extremely limited use at any time. This seems to support the vintage photos I've seen in various publications. (I also don't see any one book as the final authority just like I don't see any one "expert" as the final word.) Anyway, It's possible that the long held belief may be going the way of the long misled belief that only diagonal buttplates should be on early Inlands. This is my opinion of course. For certain, I didn't witness this sling being put on this rifle, but it sure appears to have been there quite awhile and looks right in terms of age and wear compared to the rest of the gun. My 12/42 Inland also has a khaki sling from the same mfg with a 42 date, but with a round wire style wider buckle. I agree, most accessories (and parts for that matter) have a ballpark range in terms of timeframes, but aside from that, the only thing 'absolute' is that there are very few absolutes in our hobby. Did they issue any 1945 with Dogleg hammers? Probably not many if ever... Did they issue straight hammers in 42? No, they didn't. But did they issue khaki buckles in 1942 with wider buckles? I think it's very likely they did.
Thank you. Could you post a picture of the sling marking? Also, the sling marking on your "12/42 Inland"? I would be very interested in seeing what they look like.
I suggest that you use a book source other than Larson's.
Good advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newscotlander
to the seller who posted the photos on the auction. Obviously the buyer (you) had nothing to do with it. I just found it odd that a person selling a nice piece like that wouldn't take the time to remove the rust. Made no sense unless there was another motive in leaving it there. So yes, I was speaking out of ignorance: what's up with the rust?
Hi DaveHH,
Thank for the clarify,
I appreciate that. Oddly enough, I"ve often found with collectibles, that some of the best items came from those "dummies" who didn't present them well at all. Bad pictures, limited text. etc. etc.. It was that reason that I ended up with this one I think. Sometimes you just have to see the wheat with the chat and realize that many of these prizes are still with those who have no clue. You and I would've never presented it like that... oh, and that "rust" just brushed and cleaned off easily. Some patina left in areas, but no pitting at all. There was also some moldiness in the slingwell and stock that was so easy to just brush and clean off. Thanks again!
---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------
I have 7 or 8 references. I used that one as it has the best illustrations of them all and I just got it. I've found NO one book is totally 100% correct.
I would agree with you about hidden gems, but this guy apparently knows his carbines as he points out all of the various features of this early carbine. The photos are not at all poor and for the format, quite well done. I just find it very odd that a knowledgeable collector would allow one of his units, an apparently very valuable one, to go out the door or be portrayed like that. Kind of like showing a classic car for sale and having a flat tire in the photo.
Agreed, I don't get that either.... Why not wipe it down a bit? But he did what he did, and that aspect of his ad is a mystery. I did find him very nice to deal with and easy to complete the transaction.
I think the whole thing was suspicious before we realized Matty was legit. Anybody who dealt with STB had the bad karma associated with them.
Perry was lucky to take the risk, even without a return policy..if the seller offered that, there would be more bids, plus, the seller may have been leary to remove the rust, and he didnt want to show it..Perry like myself, likes early carbines, but he likes minty WRA's, carbines and WIN13's too! :-)
Here's the images of the slings for my 42 Inlands. The one on the left with the round buckle is from my 12/42. The one on the right is from the 8/42. The "2" is hard to see in the example on the right, but from every angle, it does appear to be a "2" in the date 1942. The right base lower right of that character (lower right of 2) is there. I know it's hard to see... Note the print font size varies between the two slings. But I suppose that's to be expected from production date to production date. And I suppose that ultimately, a definitive conclusion cannot be drawn from the one on the right. Of the 4 possible WW2 numbers, and having the lower right leg of the 2 still present, I figured it was a "2" as opposed to the other characters possible.
Thanks for posting the pictures.
Anytime of course! thx !Quote:
Originally Posted by Newscotlander
Here are the pictures that were lost from Reply #53 above. - Bob
Attachment 135738Attachment 135739