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I have a new specimen in great shape with tight bore that I took out for shooting.
When looking at centering group, I noticed that there's no front sight screw for blade tensioning.
With all other No4 it is a breeze to unscrew, loosen up blade and reset in place.
Is it normal fashion?? Easy to remove front sight assembly and replace with common one??.
Tks,
BB
:dunno:
Do you mean that
a) there is a hole, but no screw?
In which case you need (I think) a 4BA screw of appropriate length, and you seem to be living in the wrong time zone to find one easily, let alone cheaply?
or
b) there is no hole?
According to Stratton, the screwless version was used primarily on wartime Savage and Long Branch Mk 1s. One would certainly not expect it on a very late No. 4 Mk 2. In which case, quite apart from the possibility of relacing what you have by the proper foresight block assembly, it would be advisable to look over the entire rifle very carefully for other anamolies. Maybe someone has been creative with spares at some time?:dunno:
To replace: remove the foresight protector screw. The foresight protector is the "ears". Then slide off the foresight protector.
The foresight block band is held on by a 0.1" diameter pin that you will have to drive out (I think from left to right - someone please correct me if I am wrong!) You can then slide off the foresight block. Ha! Ha! Some hope! - You will probably have to "persuade" it with a piece of hard wood and a sharp tap on the wood with a plastic hammer. Not that it will be rusted - it's just that after half a century any grease has long since turned into a kind of resin! So soak the whole foresight assembly with penetrating oil and leave overnight before you start the job.
:wave:
The solid foresight blocks do appear on late Mk2s - I've had several fairly mint rifles with this type of block.
Its perfectly normal. You just need to use the foresight blades with a split base, if you need to change the elevation setting. No point in replacing the block.
Hi see below for replies.
tks,
BB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Rifle is really mint with previous owner unwrapping and firing few shots only.
Would like to use similar front sight system as per other MK1s I have.
tks,
BB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
In truth, the only difference between the split and solid foresight block bands is that one holds the blade in place with friction and the other is held in place with even MORE friction.
But be warned before you leap, that foresight block bands are not quite that simple. You MUST have an exact match if you want to nbe able to continue zeroing your rifle. I suggest that you read and then RE-read an article I wrote on the differences between all 6 types............. yes, 6 types that the unwary might not even realise exist.
Maybe someone can resurrect the article for Boom Boom
I have another question regarding same rifle.
SN falls right under Stratton's starting number for Irish Contract.
I was dead sure about IC as contract source but now, I am puzzled
There's a block of 5000 rifles with missing destination right between Sudan and Irish Contract.
Anybody can help please.
tks,
BB
None of the "contracts" appear to have gone further than a UK depot, followed a few years later by sale into the surplus market. The contracts list merely appears to have been an early sales projection by the Ministry of Supply (as was), and "gaps" or other discrepancies may have no significance at all. The only numbers with some sort of history appear to be the PF 4xx,xxx series, which appear to have been created by the sale of un-numbered action bodies to the UK gun trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom-Boom
Some seem to have at least been issued to someone. I've got an issued (no telling who to, I'll admit) Mk2 in the Irish Contract range, and there are certainly photos and anecdotal evidence out there of Irish reservists with No.4 Mk2s. Now whether or not those were actual "Irish Contract" rifles is up for further research/debate. Several years back there was a gent on one of the other boards that claimed to have the full story of Irish rifles and was in the process of writing a book. I've been waiting patiently, but so far...nothing. I hope he comes through.Quote:
None of the "contracts" appear to have gone further than a UK depot...
Thunderbox is quite right if I understand him. This so called 'Irish Contract' is a bit of a play on words because the Ministry of Supply, a Government body no less, in the Government factories, didn't make this stuff for anyone else except the Government, to Government orders and contracts. And from there, it all went into Goverment stores depots. From there, the various friendly (and subsequently not so bloody friendly......) Governments/nations would ask UK Government to supply, say, 1,500 No4 rifles and xyz machine guns. It'd be approved and they'd be shipped as in the normal course of business. They HAD to go to the Government for their No4 rifles because BSA were not permitted to make new rifles after their last Government contract was completed because they were a commercial company and were simply sub contractors - same as the L1A1 contracts stipulated. BSA came unstuck by unwittingly (so said ?) continuing the manufacture of No8 rifles on a commercial basis in the 50's after the completion of their UK MoS contract.
The No4 rifles were a UK MoS contract and many were possibly sold to Ireland
As for the 'sale/disposal' of unnumbered, unproofed(?) highly accountable and strictly controlled bodies to the equally accountable and strictly controlled gun trade, well, that's another fairy story I have never quite understood............... Mind you, I haven't been in the Armouring business that long
Gentlemen:
I have a copy of a letter from the Irish Military archives to Mr. Graham Priest where they lay out in detail what No 4 MK2 rifles went to Ireland and when. I currently have a request for Information in to these same achieves, and I will share the results when they arrive. The request went in November of 2010, expected response in February, (if they are to respond at all). In addition I have been collecting serial numbers of these rifles, and the conditions, with over 240 rifles in the database to date. I also contacted a number of Irish reservists who were present when the rifles were disposed of, as there were multiple sales of these rifles between 1990 and 1996~1997 (some disagreement from different reservist on when the last shipment occurred) I have sent letters to a gunsmithing firm that was involved in at least one of the sales as a local representative, and also wrote and spoke with a Century arms spokesman who would not provide any additional information, but did confirm some information I already knew.
So based on the above, I can summarize the following:
1) Ireland did accept 50,000 No 4 MK 2 rifles; there is no doubt on this. The supposed rifles held back in England is false
2) The lowest serial number is in the 309,xxx range, dated 3/54.
3) Of the Nominal PF range listed in Stratton, only around 31,400 rifles were received in that range. None were shipped in the serial rage above 1/55 PF 350,xxx, very few above PF340,xxx range.
4) Of the remaining 18,600 rifles (approximate) all of them came out of the UF55 A range, the highest serial number range being in the A21,262 range.
5) The reason that there are few “dogs” in the Irish shipments is that the dogs were dumped at sea, and ZF or DP condition rifles were not sold. Currently trying to confirm the numbers of rifles destroyed.
6) Many when sold were in unissued condition, including virtually all of the UF 55 condition rifles. I have the statements of the Irish reservists who were involved in the cataloging of the rifles as they were taken out of storage in Ireland on this and the locations were various Irish military storage depots, not Donnington England as some believe.
Once I have the complete data I will post it here. In doing this research I have found a lot of the commonly held beliefs are wrong and there is a lot of false impressions out there on the Irish contracts, use and sales.
Regards
Frederick303
Heeeeeeeeey Fred, we, well certainly me, don't dispute anything - yet! All I have said is that the UK Ministry of Supply/Government Ordnance factories only make for and supply to the UK Government. Can you imagine if they just supplied to all and sundry? NO, they make for the Government of the day, on contract. A commercial company, like Bedford trucks or Sterling might make and sell to whoever it wants to - but not the Government factories. All their work is directed through the UK Government of the day. Who they sell it on to is a matter for them and this VERY point was the subject of a major legal court case in the 80's
What I am a bit worried about in such research, and it's only right, correct and fair to say so, is the emphasis being placed on the memory of these 'Irish reservists'. Just a glib point, but did they all make and keep notes?
Capt. Laidler,
It is always a pleasure to correspond with you. You may recall (or not) answering some of my questions with regards to Irish marked AM prefix .22 SMLE rifles use as RAF cadets rifles. I would be more than glad to share and possibly have correction from you on what information I have to date on the Irish No 4 MK 2 rifles. The information on the quantities accepted by Ireland and serial number ranges comes directly from the Irish Military archives. I did not get this information, an acquaintance of yours, Mr. Graham Priest did and he very kindly shared the information with me. I currently have a letter into the same archives attempting to close out a few questions I have on the topic.
The information from the reservists was in regard to the disposition of the rifles, when they were sold and what was done with the lesser condition rifles, as well as parts stores. I inquired with these individuals as Century Arms would not tell me how many of the rifles were sold to them or when or if any of the rifles came out of England in the surplus sales that were conducted there in the early 1990’s. (I was trying to track down the common belief that a lot of the rifles were never sent to Ireland). Every individual that had recollection of the surplus sales indicates the rifles were taken out of Irish stores and sent directly to the new world
I also was interested in the armourer service of these rifles; it would seem they did not replace barrels, at least according to those sources I spoke with. When the rifle barrels were worn out, they were used as drill rifles. The cleaning care given the rifles in service was fairly good, as such most of the rifles were truly shot out by the time they were placed in the DP category. All of the DP rifles were destroyed, at least according to the Reservists (One of the questions to the archives). Also destroyed were the stocks of parts taken off of a limited number of DP rifles for service of existing issued rifles and some wood that was in new condition. As to these assertions, I have also asked the Military Archives to confirm this.
If you have any possible knowledge on Irish armour practices, please let me know. It was indicated to me that the Irish armourers trained in the UK pre WWII and copied English practices prior to the introduction of the metric FAL and Swedish M45 sub-machinegun, so perhaps you have some insights on the topic?
Regards
Frederick303
I've had two UF55 rifles with "Parker Hale Birmingham" stamped in the receiver ring. One was A2- and the other was A365--. Both had been well modified when I got them, so cannot say if they were complete or just actions when sold as surplus.
Another Mk2 with that stamp was posted about here I believe.
Which only shows that the rifles in question either never left the UK or returned there at some point, most likely.