43 mauser with rudiger 4x scope

my grandfather left me an old mauser. it has an old scope, rudiger 4x, wich look sas old as gun. no gun shops in my area can tell me what it is. they just offer me 750. serial num 75--. looks like scope mounts installed factory. can look under scope to use open sights. all numbers match, different stock and barrel. barrel has been turned to be smooth. no steps. all nazi markings visible. just curious what this rifle is? did they come with rudiger scopes?? or is this just another sporterized mauser? i am a huge ww2 history fanatic. i see some on intenet go for 300, some go for 7000. just curious, any answers helpful

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Originally Posted by ERIKSAWYER

barrel has been turned to be smooth. no steps.

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So that ruined any possible collector value! - You can't put that right again.:thdown:

Valuation over here (Mauserland): Sporterized + irreversible alterations = collector value nil, rest value (if a good shooter for hunting) 100-150. I regret that this must sound rather negative, but that's the brutal truth around these parts, where there are lorryloads of sporterized milsurps available. My local dealer won't take them any more!

:wave:

PS now I've seen the pictures, I come to a much more positive conclusion - see my later post1

Erik.

At first I thought you were referring to an 11 mm (.43) MAUSER. nOW i GOT IT. It's not all that bad. An 8mm mauser is a pretty decent hunting rifle - they are mostly as accurate as any Remington or Winchester out of the box. And 8x57 is a hell of a good big game round.

You're not gonna get rich off this one, but you might get a decent elk/bear/moose with it. One shot if you do your part.

jn

The rifle sounds like a $150.00 sporter. But a gunshop offerd $750.00??? Why??? Is this a sniper rifle? Can you post a photo or two? I need a picture.

he said the scope was worth more than gun, ill put pics up tomorrow

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Qj5CpgMe4aM/TT...0/IMG_2958.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Qj5CpgMe4aM/TT...0/IMG_2953.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Qj5CpgMe4aM/TT...0/IMG_2950.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Qj5CpgMe4aM/TT...0/IMG_2951.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Qj5CpgMe4aM/TT...0/IMG_2945.JPG

hope pictures help guys. any info is greatly appreciated. i am just a huge ww2 history buff and just having a rifle from that period with eagle swastika on it is enough.

1943? date. I really do not think this started out as a sniper rifle, but I am not a sniper guy. It appears to be a very nice sporter job on a WWII German Mauser. Double set triggers and nicely put together. This rifle drips history and I wouldn't part with it no matter what. Looks like blond european walnut. Post WWII job, done in West Germany? Was your Grandfather in WWII as a GI? Did he pick it up there? This is a keeper. Hang on to it!

great grandfather pilot shot down in a b29. got a silver star for it. any idea on the scope? gun is very accurate. have a remington 30-06 and this one is much more accurate even out to 500yd. why double triggers? was this a hunting rifle? it is a 1943. i do remember my grandfather saying something about west germany.

you have yourself one fine hunting rifle plus throw in the history of that beautiful mauser, your a lucky man to have that piece...

That is no Bubba job. That is a professionally made hunting rifle, converted from a 98. The scope type is a collector's item and the mountings are valuable by themselves - the scope only has vertical adjustment. Horizontal adjustment is made with the mounting setup. So anyone with such a scope and no mountings is fairly desperate to get hold of them!

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Originally Posted by ERIKSAWYER

he said the scope was worth more than gun

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I wouldn't argue with that. Just expand the statement to "scope with mountings".

It's a keeper just as it is! You said yourself, it's accurate:cheers:

:wave:

PS: I am not quite sure that the name is Rudiger -the first letter looks more like a K - compare it with the last letter? Could you please take another look - maybe post another pic of the name plus an overall view of the rifle?

OK, found a reference:

Rudiger, in the town of Hildesheim, Germany.

Check the scope tube diameter - it may be something like 26.4-26.5mm.
The scope might be (NO guarantee from this distance) a military scope. The high mounting, enabling use of the normal iron sights, also supports this conjecture - I have not yet seen a hunter with a scope who also used iron sights. Obviously the guy who offered you 750 has a similar opinion.:cheers::cheers:

:wave:

It does have mechanical windage adjustment. Look at picture #4 and you'll see a square stud on the rear mount. It takes a special key to adjust it. They look almost identical to the ones for the old wind-up toys. Can't tell from the pics but this looks like a single or double claw type mount. Most WWI German sniper rifles were set up like this, some offset to the left and some centered. Although not nearly as common as the short and long side rail and the high and low turret mounts, there were a few WWII snipers built with this type of mount. In the '50's there were a lot of fine custom guns built from bring back rifles. Whoever did this one really knew his stuff. Excellent craftsmanship. Kinda reminds me of the pre-war Oberndorf Sporters. Scopes like this turn up fairly often on E-bay, thay normally bring more than $750 too.

That rifle HAS to be kept. Possible sniper(?) scope, family history and nice hunting piece. Hold on to it.

MORE PICShttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._2946JPG-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._2942JPG-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._2950JPG-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._2959JPG-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._2949JPG-1.jpg

Thanks. Is there anyway to tell if this is original or added on?? Now im scared to hunt with it. I walk around to much for this. Did they use these mounts and scope during ww2?? Also why double trigger?

If not all, certainly the vast majority of hunters in Germany use scoped rifles, and quite a few come to my club to try out new ammo, realign their scopes etc. In fact, we service-rifle shooters reckon (by observation) that the average hunter is totally unused to iron sights. So a lot of scope know-how was around before WWII, maybe more than in most other countries. The scopes used by German snipers were hardly different to those used by hunters. The difference, quite frankly, was in the nature of the target, not the scope. As a result, I cannot tell from here whether the rifle is a converted ex-sniper or not. But the average hunter, not using iron sights, would not need the tall mounts to enable shooting with the iron sights.

As to the trigger, this is a double-set trigger, and is typical for hunting rifles. You should be able to find a small screw in the trigger assembly- look closely where the triggers pass through the plate - that enables you to adjust the let-off. WARNING - this is the original hair-trigger type, and it is possible to make them dangerously sensitive, especially as any old mechanism is likely to have a certain amount of play!

A fine piece. Enjoy it!

:wave:

German hunting and American hunting are completely different. The Germans normally hunt from a stand with a paid guide. The hunter does not keep the deer/boar. The German hunting license is very difficult to get and the written test would probably flunk most Americans. This rifle has a double set trigger, very German. You "set' the trigger by pulling the front trigger, this "arms" the rear trigger, which is a "hair" trigger. Very German, Americans do not use this trigger at all. A very nice keeper, for sure. By the way: after WWII a carton of US cigarettes was big-time on the black market. Many gunsmiths would do nice work for 1-2 cartons of smokes.

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

You "set' the trigger by pulling the front trigger, this "arms" the rear trigger, which is a "hair" trigger.

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Well, all the double-set triggers I have seen have been the other way around - the setting trigger is at the back - because the only place for the main trigger spring is at the back of the action. The release - the hair-trigger - is at the front, and there is an adjusting screw in between. Take a look at the pictures:

The first picture shows the system as "set".
Attachment 19438

The second picture shows the system after the trigger has been released.
Attachment 19439

This is the set trigger from my Anschuetz percussion rifle, now about 160 years old, and it functions perfectly. BTW the lockwork is a piece of jewellery!

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Americans do not use this trigger at all.

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Not true. I am sure you do not intend to claim that a Kentucky or Pennsylvania long rifle, or a Plains rifle, is not American. I recommend that you take a long. slow look through Flayderman`s Guide to Antique American Firearms. Maybe modern cartridge rifle shooters do not generally use set triggers. But their forebears certainly did. And their modern successors with muzzle-loading and black-powder target rifles certainly still do. Like my long-range Sharps.

Please take a look at this page copied from "The Complete Rehabilitation of the Flintlock Rifle" by T.B.Tryon.

Attachment 19440

You will see that the mechanism is the same as on the Anschuetz, and was common way back in the flintlock era. Muzzle-loaders other than military rifles, that is to say hunting rifles and target rifles, very commonly had double-set triggers, for good reasons.
- For target rifles, the sensitive let-off is the obvious reason.
- For hunting rifles, another good reason is silence! A hunter has to carry a muzzle-loader already loaded. Cocking a rifle in the quiet of the woods causes an almighty "click" that seems to rattle round the countryside, loud and sharp enough to scare off the game. So the hunter wanted to have the rifle already cocked when he approached game or was lying in wait. That is dangerous enough with a normal military trigger. With a hunting rifle trigger set to a light let-off pressure it would be suicidal. But a muzzle-loader hunter could have the action cocked without the trigger being set. When the target appeared, he only had to set the trigger when taking aim in order to be ready to fire. This action is almost silent by comparison with cocking a hammer. To fire the rifle without setting the trigger typically requires enormous pressure - far above any accidental contact. So although it is unacceptable by today's safety standards, an old-time hunter alone in the woods would have considered this an adequate safety function.

:wave:

Or my squirrel/coyote rifle:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01450-1.jpg
Not an optional set trigger, either! It requires cocking the rear trigger to activate the front.

---------- Post added at 05:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 AM ----------

And it's "fixin'" to get used some more before the season's over.

Niiiiice !! :cheers:

:wave:

:thup:ERIKSAWYER, any "complete" rifle photos? It's looking pretty racy so far. Wouldn't do a thing beyond basic maintenance and actual hunting. That high scope set-up can come in useful in brushy areas. Had to go to the irons to bag a deer REAL close in using a scoped high claw mount Mauser once...


Unlike most commercial see-through mounts made today, yours will hold it's zero pretty well.

Also, it's condition is not so pristine that keeping as a working rifle would pose any real dramas. Use it for another 50-60 years. If the scope does fog up, there's folk who can "easily" service it.

thanks for all the help. glad to no i can take pride in my rifle. cant wait for next years hunting season already. the double trigger is extremely sensative. already have adjusted down a little. dont plan on selling but what value would you give this rifle? who makes the best hunting round for this gun?

Mr Chadwick; tis a joy to read your posts. GRF

Patrick: Thank you for "the sorting this one out". Please keep it up. But please allow me this: Double set triggers are seldom found on new American rifles. Not common at my range at all. Another reason why this rifle is such a keeper.

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Originally Posted by ERIKSAWYER

who makes the best hunting round for this gun?

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Really good question! Unfortunately most US ammo is loaded down pretty severly in deference to the umm,"people" who insist on using in 1888 Commision rifles and such w/ 0.318" bores. Reloading is a good option. Is there any readily available European spec hunting ammo in North America?

That said, even the US stuff seems OK on close in deer. It's just not all it could be. Think "30-30 performance" when "30-06 performance" is about do-able.

Basically, I suspect you will have to look for an ammo manufacturer from the German-speaking or Scandinavian countries to find the best 8x57JS hunting ammo - because that's where the major market is for this caliber.

If you go to

RWS Product Finder

or


http://www.norma.cc/sortimentjakt.asp?Kaliber=26&Lang=3&Kalibernamn=8x57JS

you will find 8x57JS ammo loaded with muzzle energies in the range 3700-4100 joules.

They were at the Shot Show and may have (should have?) representatives in the US.

http://www.sako.se/pdf/Sako_Ammunition.pdf

shows a load producing 3854 joules.

Hope this helps!

:wave:

Privi Partisan hunting ammunition is very good stuff. Loaded to European standards.

My catalogs show
Privi Partisan 3331-3430 J (3 loads)
Sako with E0 = 3854 J (200gn Hammerhead)
S&B with E0 =3989 J (220 gn Sierra)
S&B with E0 =3424 J (200gn Barnes)
Geco with E0 = 3937 (187gn)
and the RWS and Norma loads previously mentioned.

As far as prices go, the Prvi Partisan is likely to be cheapest, followed by S&B. The others will make a large-caliber hole in your wallet - but this stuff is intended for hunters firing off a few shots a day, not for target shooters getting through two packets in an afternoon! If you are in the latter group, you will need to get rich or get reloading!

:wave: