Range report No.4 T hmmmmmm.

Took my No/4 T to the range on Saturday. I wanted to try out S&B vs PP ammo. Results not what I expected. After a couple of warming shots into the bank I started out on the paper. First shots were a few inches apart then I put three in the same hole, and put the originals down to warming up. Then it exhibited a strange tendency, out of 5 shots 2 might be in one place and the other 3 in another (about 2 inches across but an inch down). his happened three time. Two distinct impact area within five shots.

Just to check it wasn't me (as that was my first thought) i then put 15 rounds of the same ammo through an 1898 model 95 Winchester in 303 with open sights and got a 2 1/2 inch solid group. So my thoughts are 1.) the 2 inches odd is the best the ammo will do and I'm expecting too much and it just happened that these shots end up focused in two specific smaller groups or b) something is slipping under recoil in the scope and moving between two points. Any thoughts as to whether this is possible?

Could it be bedding related? I had an Interarms Mk 10 Mauser several years ago that had almost that same problem. The problem vanished after bedding the action and free flouting the barrel. I can't say for sure which one solved the problem as I did them both together.

Might be bedding, might not. I would round up a variety of brands and shoot them before I went tinkering with the rifle itself. Being a T it has a scope and that could also be a source for trouble. Keep in mind the optics are some 60 yrs old.

I've realise dthat I did nOT check that every screw on theh thing was tightened down so I'll retry it this weekend. Last time we went out though, this rifle would shoot into a 1 inch circle pretty much all day but that was with Greek HXP whihc I have now run out of.

Just keep in mind that these rifles aren't noted for being one holers and are ammunition sensitive. They also suffer from all of the same ills as any No4.

Very well said Bearhunter!

Oh I realize that. it just seemed odd that rather than spreading a group out over 3 - 4 inches or so, the result here was two individual tight groups with specific locations. One about 1/2 inch left of the aiming point and one two inches further across and one inch further down. it could be two in one mini group and three in another but it was consistent over 4 x 5 shot groups.

Newcastle, theres no doubt in my mind that you know way more Enfields than i do, but have you checked to see if your forearm is tight? I have a '43 LB that i put a no-drill mount on 5 yrs. ago to hunt with. At the time accuracy was acceptable. I turned it into a 4T clone 2 yrs ago when the repro pads & mounts showed up. To start with, the forearm was fairly tight but it got looser over time and accuracy went to pot. Our deer season here lasts 4 1/2 months so it gets lots of use. I guess the wood dried out in the heat, as it stays in my truck for the entire season. I read Peter Laidler's artical on repairing the draws and decided to give it a try just to see what would happen. I performed the repairs according to his instruction and it made all the difference in the world. The rifle will now shoot 2 1/2'' groups @ 200 yds. and 4 1/2'' @ 300. Not bad for a 2 groover. Just a thought, may be something entirely different in your case.

vintage hunter, that isn't bad for most rifles, milsurp or commercial. Sounds like you did a good job. Over the past 50 years, I've rescued dozens of Lee Enfields from the local dump. Haven't seen many over the last 15 years or so but before that, they sometimes showed up 3 at a time. Most were modified into sporters and some were nicely done. The problem was, no matter how nicely done they were, it was tough to get $50 out of them at best and most went in the $25 range. Things have certainly changed. I saved one bunch from the tracks of a bulldozer and all had tags on them, declaring them inaccurate. I took them all anyway. At the very least, they had lots of decent parts. To be honest, most were just that, parts donors. There were more than a few jewels though and more than a couple were just full wood models that their previous owners were to lazy or uninterested to clean the cosmo out of. They were just run of the mill FTRs but still in VG or better condition. $5 Army and Navy specials.

The rifles marked inaccurate all had the same problem, cracked fore ends and they were missing the spacer on the king screw. They had poor bedding and no upward fore end pressure. Of course in those days, I knew little or nothing about these rifles but I did know how to apply epoxy at the appropriate place. They were chopped stocks and in those days, very few people collected them. What else can I say. It usually didn't take much to get them shooting again. A couple of old REMEs, "Tiny Tim" Ryan, Walt Rogers and Les Viel were tomes of information and loved to share it. I wish I had spent more time with them. Time caught up with them before I could. Rest in peace boys.

Arrrr..... The million dollar question was it me the ammo or the rifle?
I may not be able to help with that from here, but here is a useful exert from the British army that we all should be using to check our MPI (group sizes). I hope it will help in some way.

Chris

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...011/01/4-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...11/01/11-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...011/01/2-3.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...011/01/3-2.jpg

I know what you're talking about Bearhunter. The day of the cheap milsurps are long gone. There is a chain of department stores here in the U.S. that used to sell various types of surplus firearms back in the'90's. They sold No.1 mk.3's for $29.95, No.4mk1's&2's for $49.95 M-1 carbines @ $135.00. They had 1914 &1917 Enfields, Swedish Mausers &Steyers among others. Whats more, they'd let you go in the back and pick out the one you wanted. Saw some really minty looking rifles come out of those boxes. Odd variants too. I was single back then and i still kick myself for not investing most of my weekly paychecks on them and putting them aside. I could have turned a handsome profit them now. You know the old saying,''Hindsight is always 20/20''.