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I just recently picked up a 1942, 2Groove LB and I was wondering what the "value" is? When I say "value" I don't mean cash, as this rifle will stay in my collection for years to come. I am curious as to how branding and finish impact collectiveness. The rifle was branded with a New Zealand brand and it is almost mint, but the stain colour is slightly off between different pieces of the furniture. Is this a huge deal?
Berger
Miscolor-matched furniture is not uncommon and won't affect value much. The NZD markings are somewhat uncommon, if anything they add a premium :)
Thanks Claven! I won't feel too guilty when I shoot her then....being desirable an all....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Claven2
Thanks
Berger
As far as the pieces of wood not having all the same colour, this was not a priority when rifles were originally assembled or rebuilt. The LB I was issued was 2-tone, birch and walnut. The rifle is 66 years old and saw service. It may or may not have all its original parts.
I am curious...because of its age and year of production, is it pretty much assured that it saw action, or could it have been surplus?Quote:
Originally Posted by tiriaq
Berger
'42 manufacture would have seen use.
Training was done with everything they could get their hands on because of a shortage of Enfields. There was no surplus production
Not necessarily, I have a 1943 2 groove LB that was never used. It was stolen by a RCN sailor when he left the service in 1945. He said he wanted a rifle to take home, and figured he might as well grab a new one. He never used it, thinking that he might get arrested if the RCMP looked at the serial #. It doesn't even have any brass on the mag platform! It even has the leather washer over the butt bolt. This is NOT a fake, I have been studying L E's for years, and I can always tell a fake. The CANADIAN government was fighting a propaganda war in the early years. There are numerous photos of our home soldiers, manning isolated WEST COAST bases waiting for a JAPANESE invasion. As early as the spring of '42, they were armed with the No. 4! This while we had soldiers overseas still carrying the Mk. III! One old soldier told me that the 2 groove rifles were mostly reserved for home service, and all the 5 groove rifles went overseas. I have never been able to confirm that, but it might be true. They were making 2 and 5 groove barrels at the same time.
If the '43 was never issued... Where would an RNC sailor have stolen it from?
Buy the rifle, not the story...
The rifle went to NZ. It was sold surplus from there. NZ troops may have used No. 4s during overseas service, most photos I've seen show SMLEs. If your rifle is almost mint, it was used very little, if at all, and remained stored in NZ until it was sold off.
Something to keep in mind regarding surplus LB rifles - most of the ones made were shipped to England, and were part of the pool of rifles available for issue wherever needed. There is no particular reason to believe that a particular LB rifle was used by a Canadian, unless there is known provenance.
My rifle supposedly came from a supply depot. Most LB's in Canadian service were marked with the "C BROAD ARROW". Does the NZ have all matching #'s? Every NZ arm I have seen has been mismatched, even my WEBLEY. My unused LB has the Mk II sight installed, as my NZ LB does, too. It is very nicely put together, with nice reddish matching wood. It had never been cleaned when I bought it, and it was basically just dusty. No cosmoline. Several patches of HOPPE'S in the bore, to check for copper or cupro-nickel, showed no traces of either. Just a lot of lint. The old guy that owned it wasn't a gun guy, he just wanted something to take home. I don't understand why people always think that these unused rifles are faked. Here in Canada, it just isn't worthwhile to build fakes. There just isn't enough of a market for them. I only paid 200 bucks for mine, because it was "just an old .303". There were quite a few CNo.4 Mk1* rifles sold here as unissued, and they were obviously used. Canadian supply depots were not very secure, either. Many vets have all manner of military gear that they took home in '45. An old vet just gave me a huge quantity of Canadian 1919 MkVII ball, in chargers. He told me that he swiped them in '45, and always regretted not stealing more stuff. But he was so sick of the war, he just wanted to leave. According to Skennerton, the NZ warehouse where the Charleton rifles were stored was known for having things disappear, too. Maybe the NZ rifle was stolen from there?
There is a quanity of LB rifles with NZ marks in Canada. They were released as a batch, sold as surplus. This has nothing to do with a rifle being liberated by an individual.
There was also a quantity of LBs supplied to Australia.
Remember that SAL at LB manufactured many more rifles than were needed by Canada, and most went into the pool for issue as required. IIRC, the Brits underwrote 50% of the cost of bulding LB.
NZ probably kept most of their No. 4 rifles at home, like we were doing. Waiting for the Japanese invasion.
Hey,Quote:
Originally Posted by K31
Yes, the NZ LB has all matching numbers.
Berger
Lucky lucky! Do you have a NZ bayonet, too? They were crudely marked with an electropencil.