Does anyone out there...........

Does anyone out there on planet Forum own No4T or L8(T) or L42 rifle with the serial number
33072 or 35389. Have you got these listed Simon P?

I ask because I've just unearthed some trials paperwork relating to some 1969 trials of the Leatherwood ART telescope at Warminster and these rifles were used with the special brackets. What we don't know yet is whether these two rifles were still in .303 or L8 guise or even Ex 42 because the paperwork specifies that they've been recently converted. Converted to what exactly is a bit unclear.

Anyway, if you've got one of these......... Additionally, a couple of L1A1's were also converted to accept the ART and the No74 sights too.

The Leathermans weren't acceptable (and the No32 was marginal too. The No74 was the best.....) and the trials ended. There ended the service life of those special brackets too. NEVER approved for fitting to the L42. The mounting bolts came in for a bit of stick too because they were allen bolts (yes they were.......) and subject to shear by the user who always wanted them tighter that jumbo jet wheel nuts.

While were on the subject, I have also unearthed the paperwork that relates to the Envoy rifle fitted up with a Leatherwood and supressor. I know a picture of this rifle exists with all sorts of captions but......... This was trialed by the UK MoD as a prvate venture on behalf of M.A.Corporation who fitted the sionics supressor and the ART Mk2 telescope in Sept 71

There, another useless bit of No4T or L8 or Ex42 history

Oooh... close. I have 4(T) 35347

Good to hear the info about the suppressed Envoy, after years of stories. There are, however, photos of at least two different Envoy/ART combinations; I wonder if they were both from the same venture?

Sorry Peter, not even close:
No4T 3364#
L42 3591#
L42 3594#

My Envoy No E38# came set up, similar to an Enforcer with Pecar scope, one of the forumers has one very similar & believes they are both Ex-Sussex police, from memory he told me they purchased 10 Envoys?

Images that others have posted on the forum in the past:

Picture two is the rifle in our trials, with the No8 butt. That was taken on the grass at the side of the Trials wing at Warminster. I don't know what the mount is but the mounts for the 1969 trials were allen bolts while picture 3 shows the common IWS mount. Anyway, that's taken some of the mystery out of this fabled rifle. I wonder who these mysterious Middle Eastern nations were. Maybe they had another variation of the SBS too because it was never approved or adopted for the UK Army or Navy/RM according to SxxxRxxx

I also had this image archived in the same folder, again some one had posted this on one of the forums a while ago:

Yes................ Thanks for that Simon P, that's the bracket. Made up at RSAF for the 1969 trial from the real grainy microfische photos complete with allen bolts that the ham fisted Scottish snipers on the trials team kept trying to shear off.

That's the history of these brackets if you happen to have one. It would appear, although it could be corrected if 7.62mm L8 or XL42 rifles 33072 and/or 35389 turn up, that these brackets were only fitted to No4T rifles.

I don't have a prefix number for the rifles either. Anyway, it'd be nice if one of them turned up on this forum. It'd make it a bit special....., or a bit MORE special than they already are.

Even more interesting is the fact that I still know Major Tony Bxxxxx, the Officer who conducted the trial. We worked topgether together on another trial a couple of years ago.

Anyway, thanks Simon for that info, that's put another Lee Enfield 'myth/mystery' to bed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon P

I also had this image archived in the same folder, again some one had posted this on one of the forums a while ago:

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That used to be in my collection: an Envoy converted to L42A1 configuration with (apparently) all-new military parts and then re-suncorited.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...90752698-1.jpg

The Envoy on the trials wasn't like that shown by SimponP Thunderbox, it had the No8 type fore-end with mag and No8 butt with rubber butt plate. The bracket fittings on that look a bit....., er how do we say it....., er...amateurish to me

There was also a report on the feasibility on using telescoped No8 rifles to be used for indoor sniper training. I'll see if I can't find that too

does 3 away on the No.4(T) count ??? :-)##

Good and very close Wheaty......, but no cigar! Have you got one or possibly two No8's fitted with pads or have the threaded holes for pads though? I'm just going through the paperwork for those trialled in July '77 at the sniper wing. They must be out there somewhere

I had about 50 No.8 receivers at one time and none had the holes...Pity

DPL,
Finally had a chance to check back through my firearms register this evening, in the hope of finding one of the serials you mention in the batch of T's NoBS Dave & I bought back in the 90's. Alas, no cigar here either, although one or two were pretty close:

(P) 33074 - two out!
(G) 33027 - last two digits transposed!
& a few others not so close but in the same ball park.

I'll dream on......

ATB

Thanks for all of that info Forumers. The trouble (if that's the right word to use.....) with unearthing this stuff after so long is that there are hundreds or even thiousands out there in other forum-lands who have been brain washed by years of nonsense and horse manure that they might become unbelievers and won't accept some documented facts or are more likely to take in and absorb the urban myths that surround some of this stuff.

I say this because I feared (and took advice....., thanks DRP) that I'd upset some regarding the ART and supressor fitted Envoy, especially after the pictures of it (?) had been doing the rounds for so long. Someone even told me that his friend's friend who knew someone (you know the sort of stuff....) had borrowed it to go freelance, deep under cover in 'bandit country'. Nobody has come up trumps with the rifle numbers yet buit SOMEONE out there must have one of the No8's fitted with brackets.......... If you've acquired yours since 1977, go snd see if it's got the holes filled in!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

There was also a report on the feasibility on using telescoped No8 rifles to be used for indoor sniper training. I'll see if I can't find that too

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Peter, if you could find that I would be delighted. I have shown somewhere else on these forums what a No. 8 can do at 100 meters, and the 50 meter one-hole test pattern from the RWS test facility in Fürth. With the right ammo a No. 8 beats just about all full-bore service rifles up to 100 meters, so I reckon it certainly could have been used the purpose you mentioned.

Good luck with your search!

Patrick

It's already up Pat..................... Enjoy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

There was also a report on the feasibility on using telescoped No8 rifles to be used for indoor sniper training. I'll see if I can't find that too

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That's very interesting as I have a bracket for my No8 that’s NZ marked.

I spoke to one of the NZRAF armours who said he had never seen anything like it but suggested that it could have been set up by the army for sniper training?

The bracket simply bolts to the two standard threaded holes in the side of the receiver and has a clamp at the front, on the top of the mount there are threaded & doweled holes that I guess the scope attached to (don’t have a scope or the other parts).

At one point I fitted a weaver to it and it work very well, but I would like to know what scope was used with it originally maybe a ZF69 as I have an ex-NZ army one of those.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/01/No8-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...01/mount-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...01/Clamp-1.jpg

In 2011 Peter Laidler asked if either 33072 or 35389, sniper rifles, had surfaced as he had documentation on their use in some trials in 1969. G33072 turned up. No. 4 Mk. I (T) "7.62.CONV.D.68" (the "D" presumably being the Enfield monogram). This message is just a follow-up for those with interest in experimental No. 4 rifles.

G33072 BONHAMS AUCTION The Charnwood Ordnance Collection of Lee-Enfield Rifles and Accessories 23 Oct 1997, London, England Lot 141 "A Rare BSA Enfield Converted No. 4 Mk. 1 (T) / 7.62 Trials Rifle, serial no. G33072, converted at Enfield in 1968, pre-L42 hammered barrel, smaller diameter than the norm, standard sights and mounts and Mk. III scope fitted, (scope covers.) Skennerton page 217. Sold for GBP 700 in 1997. (Catalogue in Colin M. Stevens' Collection).

G33072 POULIN'S AUCTION Extract from catalogue - LOT 2010 - "CONVERSION BOLT ACTION SNIPER RIFLE. Cal. 7.62mm NATO. S# G33072. Bbl. 27.5". Marked on left side of receiver, "RIFLE No.4Mk.I.(T)/7.62.CONV.D 68." Heavy bbl. Half stock w/ fitted cheek pc. & scope marked, "TEL.STG.No32 Mk3/OS 2039A. ™ [Griffin&Howe] {Poulin's error in listing } No18681". Matching S# w/ exception of scope bracket & mag. Scope bracket S# C37821. Bolt has crossed flag proof, not 19T as used later. "BNP" export proof mark on left side of receiver. U.S. Leather sling. Truly a stellar specimen of an almost impossible to find British sniper rifle before the XL42E1. UNATTACHED ACCESSORIES: brown leather scope cover. CONDITION: arsenal refinished at time of conversion. Very good to near excellent overall appearance. Appears mechanically functional. Near excellent bright rifled bore. Scope optics are clear. Scope has mottling at rear top of scope. Stock has several bruises, dings & handling marks. Clear plastic protective cover glued to brass buttplate. PROVENANCE: The Estate of Bob Faris. (16-3934/JWK). CURIO. $3,500-6,500. Price realized was USD $5,522.50 The listing is still visible at the time of this posting. Hibid

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