Which '03 am I looking for? (Navy use)

Hi, I hope someone here can point me in the right direction. My Father was a MoMM on a destoryer through out WWII (Pacific). He used to speak fondly of the 1903 he used to use for shark detail (I guess he would scan the waters for sharks while crew members were swimming)

My Son, he and I were planing on running down to CMP to get one a few years back when he took I'll and died very soon after. My Son and I have decided to resume the quest in his honour but have a few questions...

Knowing I will never be able to know for sure, what likely would he have been using? I assume an 1903a3. Where there Navy marked specific guns? Would I be able to find one of proper vintage and in serviceable condition with out breaking the bank?

Any pointer would be greatly appreiciated.

Thanks,
Sean

The Navy did not use the '03-A3 in WWII, as best as I know. He most likely had a M1903 model. You will find them at most big gunshows. Look for a Springfield made with a Serial number over 800,000. Good luck.

Just watched the movie "The Sand Pebbles" last week. I know its Hollywood but they depict Navy use of 03's pretty well in this one. Steve McQueen even gets a close up with a leaf sight and a grasping groove stock.

The Navy did use 03A3's during WWII. When I entered ships pool at the Newport, R.I. Receiving Station we spent a week at the rifle range. The range was designed and operated by CDR Thurman Randle (a pre war rifleman who later became president of the NRA) and that was my introduction to the 03A3. Prior to that I had experience with the 03 and was surprised by the 03A3 as I knew nothing of them. On my ship (a light cruiser) , such duties (mine diestruction or swimmers guard) were handled by the MarDet so I never saw 03's or 03A3's as the MarDet was equipped with M1's. I would believe that late in the war, with the addition of so many ships, scarcity of 03's would require that 03A3's be issued but cannot say so for sure.

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Originally Posted by Cosine26

...such duties (mine diestruction or swimmers guard)

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Ahhh, thanks for that. He spent a good portion of the war on a mine sweeper as well and I do remember him mentioning the '03 in that capacity as well...

Indeed, thanks for that. I thought most of the 03-A3's went to the Army. Nice to know some went to the Navy as well.

When SRS used to be available online, I noted quite a few M1903A3s listed as having been assigned to auxiliary ships, like transports, sub chasers, etc. I would guess a destroyer more likely to have M1 carbines, Garands and .45s, though.

Your father most likely used a Remington M1903 between S/N 3055000 and S/N 3300000.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

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Originally Posted by John Beard

Your father most likely used a Remington M1903 between S/N 3055000 and S/N 3300000.

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I'm curious how you came to that conclusion?

Gives me a well defined target ...

Thanks,
Sean

you can trust his info , im mostly just learning ,

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Originally Posted by smac61

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion?

Gives me a well defined target ...

Thanks,
Sean

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Admittedly, your father could have used any of several different varieties and serial ranges of M1903 rifles. But that one has far and away the highest probability of usage based on the information you provided.

You stated that your father served on a Destroyer in the Pacific. I assume that the Destroyer was newly manufactured and outfitted during the early days of WWII.

The Navy had many thousands of M1903 rifles, most leftover from WWI. But those rifles were already assigned to ships and installations that existed before the war. Any new ships coming on line had to be outfitted with newly-manufactured rifles because existing rifles were already committed elsewhere. And the primary source for newly-manufactured rifles during the early days of WWII was Remington Arms and that was the serial range. I have documentation from the President of Remington Arms quoting Army Ordnance officials that the Navy was clamoring for their rifles and urging expedited production.

I have seen perhaps more than a hundred Remingtons in the aforementioned serial range and they were definitely Navy issue.

Hope this helps. Happy Hunting!

John Beard

p.s.,

And I worked at the CMP.

Hi John
Any idea what happened to the M1903's the USMC turned in when they converted to the M1? Jusrt curious.
VR
C.O

John,

Good enough for me, thanks! Seeing as I will never know for sure, that is a very reasonable place to focus our search.

Do you know if Navy issued '03's are marked in any tell tale way?

Thanks again,
Sean

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Originally Posted by smac61

John,

Good enough for me, thanks! Seeing as I will never know for sure, that is a very reasonable place to focus our search.

Do you know if Navy issued '03's are marked in any tell tale way?

Thanks again,
Sean

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Some Navy-issue rifles have rack numbers stamped or stencilled into the butt of the stock. Otherwise, the rifles have no special markings.
Hope this helps.

J.B.

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Cosine26

Hi John
Any idea what happened to the M1903's the USMC turned in when they converted to the M1? Jusrt curious.
VR
C.O

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Most USMC rifles were sold as surplus through the DCM. Some were sold directly to members of the USMC. Some were sent to Greece and other countries as foreign aid.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

There is no telling for sure what the history of any rifle is conclusively but I have been told that this one

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...eld03004-1.jpg

comes from a block of serial numbers that were on the USS Betelgeuse, an AK that served in the Mediterranean and Pacific theatres.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...eld03006-1.jpg

Doesnt mean my rifle was on that ship but ones before and after in serial number were according to SRS records. The paperwork that came with it when I bought it last year indicate it was a CMP sales rifle from 2002.

The rifle looks as if it has the reverse safety found on some National Match rifles. Also it looks as if the bolt is polished.

Navy vet here USN. I marched with a 1903 Springfield sans FP. in San Diego boot camp.1962. Fired an M1 Garand 16 rounds rifle training. Most other training electronics. gary

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Originally Posted by Cosine26

The rifle looks as if it has the reverse safety found on some National Match rifles. Also it looks as if the bolt is polished.

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Educate me regarding the reverse safety please.
The bolt does look polished and may have been but it is a WL3 not NS. There is no serial marking of the bolt and the barrel lacks a star gauge. The stock is marked with an S in the cutout but it lacks a serial number and drawing numbers. The barrel and reciever may have been an original set (8-31 SA Barrel) but the balance is mixmaster - a rather well cared for mix master that I am happy to have come into.

The normal safety is to the left for fire and right for safe. In 1928 the safety was reversed on NM rifles. With the "S" stock, if one "crawled" the stock in prone slow fire, he would probably get hit in the nose by the standard safety. ERGO - the reversed safety which put the safety to the right when in the FIRE position.This safety was available up through about 1931 when the supply was exausted.I believe that the idea came from K.K.V Casey, an early shooter.
If your "C" stock has an "S" in the cutoff recess it may well be a pre war Springfield stock. This is a valuable stock.
It looks as if your bolt is a DHT. Quite a comon cbange by shooters since the NS bolts were "sticky",Or it may just have been installed during overhaul. See Vi's bolt chart.

Thank you for the reverse safety info.

This may have been someones pet in some armory. It came through CMP in 2002 so I imagine somebody made its protector get rid of it. It is a prewar Springfield replacement stock. There are no marks other than the S. It has been discussed before on the forum. We just got a new camera I'll have to get some more recent pictures.

I think it's a real thing of beauty pmclaine. You hit the CMP lottery with that one! :bow:

After I saw the photo of the pristine, deep rich walnut C stock, I felt like I needed a cigarette
(And I've never smoked before!) :lol:

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Originally Posted by cafdfw

I think it's a real thing of beauty pmclaine. You hit the CMP lottery with that one! :bow:

:lol:

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Thank you, but I cant take credit. Some skilled craftsmen of the era (the likes of which our economy no longer seems to value) built that rifle. A gentleman in Utah made the original CMP purchase in 2002. I fear he must no longer be with us as I cant imagine him giving it up (I should try to contact him. Not sure if one would appreciate the intrusion). I picked this up at a local honey hole last April.