Type 38 rifle question

I'm new to this forum and new to collecting Japanese rifles, but I stumbled on one the other day that I just had to pick up. It is a Type 38 rifle with intact mum and all matching numbers on every part including dustcover. Another interesting thing about it is that it has a fragment of an American grenade lodged in the buttstock. It looks like it has had lead poured in the barrel just ahead of the chamber to about 4 inches from the muzzle. Has anyone ever heard of this being done, and should I leave it as it is or try to get it out?
Thanks

Don't see why you ought not try to remove the lead, but it may be much more trouble than it's worth. On the other hand it may just pop right out. If it doesn't drive out easily after a few day soak in penetrating oil, you'll have a lot of messy and possibly toxic work ahead.

Thanks for the reply, I just figured it was a way to deactivate them back in the day. I'll give her a week to soak and then see what happens.

It's not a legal deactivation, nor safe, IF a round can be chambered! (Even the wrong type of round.)

Don't often see this done, but they do show up every oce in a while. Hopefully, it hasn't ruined the bore/

Link to another thread that's relavent to yours:

heating barrel 1891 argentine

If it were mine, I would l take the barrel out, make a clamp to go around the receiver end over the chamber area, hang it in a press and with a mandrel just the size of the bore and beveled on the front so it will not gouge the riflings - press it out. You would have to start with a short mandrel and get longer, if you use a long one to begin with it will bow and defeat your purpose. It was pressed in so it will press out. riceone

As i understand it the chamber end was plugged with a wooden dowel and molten lead was poured in from the muzzle. It's been a long time but on the ones i remember seeing the lead went from about midway the chamber all the way upto the muzzle crown. I have my doubts as to whether removing it would be worth the effort. The corrosive properties of the last round fired plus the ingress of moisture over the past 60+ years have most likely fubar'd the bore. Rebarreling it may be the best solution.

Vintage, you are probably right.

Thanks for the suggestions, my old gunsmith buddy and I are going to attempt to clear it out tomorrow, let yall know how it comes out. I have a feeling that the barrel is going to have to be replaced, does that hurt the collector value too bad?

Good luck, hope everything turns out in your favor. I would have to say rebarreling it may lower the collector value some, how much i have'nt the foggiest idea. That would depend on several things i guess, it's rarity,quality of workmanship,how well the finish matches on bbl./reciever ect.... and don't forget location. One thing is for sure and certain though,it will be worth more then than it is now.

Japanese Type 38 barrels in usable shape aren't exactly common, though! Can't say I've ever seen a good pull-off barrel for one of these. The complex machining of the breech face makes a proper rebarrel rather more involved than most bolt action rifles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gew88

Thanks for the suggestions, my old gunsmith buddy and I are going to attempt to clear it out tomorrow, let yall know how it comes out.

---

Basically, you seem to have an extreme case of "leaded barrel". I respectfully suggest that the post from riceone, which has been copied over from another forum, where I agree it was the best suggestion for the problem (bore plugged by broken-off cleaning rod) is not the solution here. The great length of lead plug, which having been poured in, will have filled any pits and scratches in the bore, not to mention the throat and part of the chamber, will make it effectively impossible to drive it out.

I think you will have to melt it out. That will require removing the barreled action, taking off everything you can (bolt catch, sights) and applying slowly increasing heat to the entire barrel. The best tool for this is not a blowtorch, but the wide-flamed torch that is used by roofers for sealing up bitumen panels on flat roofs and soldering copper or zinc guttering pipes.

Go to a roofer, place the barreled action on a couple of bricks standing on end, with the chamber end higher than the muzzle end. Heat up the entire assembly evenly, starting at the lower (muzzle) end until the lead flows out. And, as mentioned in the other thread, make witness marks for the foresight and backsight bases, in case something comes unsoldered!

Afterwards, you then have an atrociously leaded barrel to clean up. No real problem, just time. The barrel may be pitted beneath the lead - but if you don't try, you will never know - what have you got to lose?

:wave:


- And good luck!

jmoore, Patrick, i agree. Even IF the bore is good Bubba will most likely have taken it off with a pipewrench. After melting the lead out, while the barrel is still hot, run a bore brush through it as this will push out most of the remaining lead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintage hunter

After melting the lead out, while the barrel is still hot, run a bore brush through it as this will push out most of the remaining lead.

---

Excellent idea - but you will need a looooong cleaning rod for the bore brush! And no handle on it! Or the brush not screwed on to the rod - the brush must be pushed right through and out the other end in one smooth action. If you try to pull it back, you could end up with a wire brush soldered into the bore!

:wave:

Not likely. Unless the base metal is perfectly clean and has had the correct flux applied and then heated to just the right temp lead won't bond to anything.

If you can find a barrel from the same series and arsenal it should fit and not be able to tell it was changed. There is a problem in switching barrels and getting the sights to be in the right place as well as the extractor cut. If the new barrel will not tighten up to the correct place you will have to remove some metal from the barrel shoulder. If it turns too far you will need a shim. If you need to turn the shoulder back and have access to a lathe, remove just a little as you can and try it and keep doing that till it fits. If it goes too far I have some shims I will send you, usually one or two will do the trick. Sometimes barrels from the same series and arsenal will tighten back to the same place. Good luck Riceone

Well I really lucked out, I figured it was lead in the bore, because it didn't have a metal sound when I tapped a rod against it, but never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that someone would have gotten an aluminum shotgun cleaning rod stuck so tight into a barrel. It was bradded on both ends from someone else trying to beat it out using too small of rod. I got it out and was suprised to see that there was decent rifling in the barrel, just one small rough spot, and wear at the muzzle which is to be expected. I will gather up a camera and post some pictures tomorrow. Thanks again for everyones input.

Congratulations:cheers::cheers::cheers:

And the moral of the story is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

... if you don't try, you will never know - what have you got to lose?

---

You tried and won:thup:


:wave:

It's amazing what you can find jammed in gun barrels. I had an original Enfield 1853 cavalry carbine that had a hex bolt stuck in the bore. Glad everything worked out ok for you.

Here are some pictures. This is just the way it came, minus the cleaning rod in the barrel. I don't claim to be a photographer, lol.

Hmmmm? Now you have a conundrum. Do you want a shooter or a museum piece. That is to say, do you leave that piece of grenade in the butt, following the "piece of it's history" route. Or do you remove it and repair the butt?

Or... since the impact damage is not on the side where you place your cheek... do you clean it, oil it etc to put it back into shooting condition AND leave the "souvenir" in place. A kind of "having your cake and eating it" solution. That should really draw some attention at the range!

A novel idea, or just plain potty? What do you think?

:wave:

Guys,
What has me astonished... is the amount of "battle damage" Jap rifles I am seeing. As the Vets die off, we are starting to see some VERY interesting rifles/ damage appear.
Glad to hear the barrel worked out... and yes... when ever you shoot, check the bore of your rifle regardless....
Thanks for posting your battle damage. When I get a chance, I will post my rifle!