30 Rd Hardback and Splitback SEY Magazines

Having read up on what distinguishes a USGI 30 round magazine from the aftermarket and reproductions out there, I've been trying to acquire a few early USGI 30 round mags. After some searching I picked up two splitlback SEYs and a splitback J marked mag. I read about the hardback magazines, but only saw pictures of one on GB where the seller was asking $125 for a NIW version.
Then I read a GB ad for a 30 round magazine in a vintage box. The written description left much to be desired, but the pictures seemed to show a hardback SEY magazine, and it fit the description in the PDF file I downloaded from the CMP website. It had a "Buy It Now" price of $27, so I picked it up. Here is a picture of the hardback SEY (on the right) next to a splitback SEY (on the left). It looks correct to me, and as far as I know, no one has made an aftermarket or reproduction hardback magazine. Any comments are welcome.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/SEYMag-1.jpg

I have two SEY hardback and they look just like your pictures.

Do all the mags have the makers marks on them? I have a 30 rounder and it is only marked M2 It is a split back...

Some 30 round mags are unmarked; most of those are aftermarket/reproduction/fakes, although there are some that are thought to be made by the same manufacturer that made the J marked magazines that are USGI and made during the Viet Nam War. The M2 marked magazines (I have several of those) are considered aftermarket, not USGI. CMP has a PDF file that you can download (I don't have the link, but it's accessable through various search engines), but it takes some time to read the file and understand what you should look for because there are no pictures. There are so many aftermarket 30 round magazines, marked and unmarked, it's hard to sort them out. If I remember correctly, all USGI magazines were originally blued, and I believe that all USGI magazines are marked with the manufacturer. AYP is a Belgium manufacturer that made 30 round magazines to USGI specs and are considered of equal quality. There are fake SEYs out there, but the font is different and they vary in construction, which is why you need to take time in understanding what is correct.

I believe this is the CMP link to 30 rd magazine info

http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/Carbine_3...ember_2007.pdf

Here's a KI. I have a few, but this, I think, is the only genuine one. Mike.Attachment 19597Attachment 19596Attachment 19595Attachment 19594Attachment 19599Attachment 19598

Here's some I have. Can't find the others right now.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dMags007-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dMags008-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dMags010-1.jpg

I'll take 2 at $27.00 each....LOL

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

Here's some I have. Can't find the others right now.

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Fascinating; is there any significance to the difference in the 4 magazines that do not hold then bold open when empty versus the ones that do.

My understanding is that original USGI magazines had the follower that would hold the bolt open after the last round was spent. However, given the ease that one can replace the follower, that in itself wouldn't be a reason to consider any of JimF4M1s' magazines wrong. Crimps, base plates, bolsters (the pieces that hold the base plate), and other evidence makes all of them look right. I don't think anyone has found a manufacturer that has reproduced the hardback 30 round magazines; only the splitback ones have been reproduced and/or faked to the best of my knowledge.

I have about 35 to 40 original 30 rounders and about 12 different fakes. Comparison, which I will not reveal shows there are characteristics on each original maker. I cannot let the information out because the fakers will adopt the changes.

As far as B Jahn, I have studied the contract and there was no unmarked contract. I have an unmarked J Jahn and SEY, but I suspect they were small production errors, or possibly foreign purchases. I know their ID due to their characteristics.

I have seen several hundred new in wrap magazines over the years and years ago they were opened at gun shows in order to sell them (all rewraps for inspection and repack). None were ever unmarked.

I have noticed that there are two broad groups of non-USGI 30 round magazines (not counting the correct AYPs); aftermarket, where there is no attempt to replicate an original USGI, and reproductions, where there is a deliberate effort to look like a real USGI. While it is not that hard to distinguish the first group, the second group is often sold at Gunshows and on line as USGI; sometimes the person selling them doesn't really know but is just retelling what he was told from a seller or another source. I have been told that the M2 marked magazines were USGI, and I've seen many unmarked magazines passed off as USGI but sold to foreign countries; some of the latter have characteristics of true USGI, but lack the weight and feel of an original USGI. They also are off on some critical dimensions, but unless you carry a caliper with you it's hard to tell. There are some that have weak springs, high locking lugs that don't allow the first round to feed properly, followers that don't feed right either, and so on. I've made a couple of unwise purchases, but that's the price of an education.

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I have been told that the M2 marked magazines were USGI

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That is totally false. The maker has been around since the mid to late 1960's. Between 1972 and 1976 I purchased about 500 of them. The last batch was so bad that they did not fit the trigger housing. I called and the wife told me to put a trigger housing on a table, bottom up, insert the magazine and if it does not fit, hit the bottom of the magazine with a wooden hammer.

That was the last batch I purchased. The owner is long retired and his sons are now in charge.

"I have been told that the M2 marked magazines were USGI."

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Originally Posted by Bill Ricca

That is totally false. . . The last batch was so bad that they did not fit the trigger housing. . .

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That is the point I was trying to make. I've had several sellers of 30 round magazines tell me those marked with the "M2" were USGI made during the Viet Nam war. I bought a couple before I knew the difference; hence the comment about the price of an education. I should add that I had to modify one of them by filing down part of the third lug so it would lock on the magazine catch; the other magazine seemed to work alright.

Sorry, I misunderstood your post.

You are not alone. We all have spent money on Repro junk only to find out it is a fake.

It will never end. I have seen several items that have not been around in years, which now are easily available. The maker has changed the method of production and they look quite real.

In 15-20 years there will be so much "original GI" items available that most individuals will never know the real scarcity of them. I am glad I will be gone by then.

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Originally Posted by Bill Ricca

I am glad I will be gone by then.

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We won't be!

How about the split back SEY mag shown in the original post - the drain hole looks like it has sharp edges, not deburred? I have (2) that are identical to the one shown, and thought they might be fake - now I'm not sure. Mr. Ricca has commented before that genuine USGI mags have all holes deburred.

It is very hard to tell by images, but the one of the right has no seam crimp. All SEY had crimps.

B Jahn and some Autoyre have very slight crimps which can be difficult to see unless one gets up close.

None of the hard backs have crimps.

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Originally Posted by Bill Ricca

It is very hard to tell by images, but the one of the right has no seam crimp. All SEY had crimps.

B Jahn and some Autoyre have very slight crimps which can be difficult to see unless one gets up close.

None of the hard backs have crimps.

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I believe the one pictured on the right is the hardback SEY.

The one on the right is the hardback and has no crimp, as it should. The splitback SEY holes edges are squared off and not as clean as the hardback. I checked my other splitback SEY and my J marked splitback mag, and the holes are all the same. Interestingly, the M2s have rounded edges on the holes. I've looked at the holes on the SEY splitbacks with a magnifying glass, and they look rough, not smooth like the SEY hardback. The splitback SEYs both have the back shape, crimp, and bolster shape described in the literature.

If Bill Ricca can elaborate on the holes on the SEY splitbacks, that would help.

I just bought an SEY hardback at a gun show today. I'll check to see if the drain holes are smoother than the ones on the SEY split backs I mentioned earlier. - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

I just bought an SEY hardback at a gun show today. I'll check to see if the drain holes are smoother than the ones on the SEY split backs I mentioned earlier. - Bob

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I had time tonight to get out all of my 30 rounders and check them over. The hardback SEY doesn't appear to have the square edges on the holes (only has two holes total) like the last two SEY splitbacks that I bought. I do have one "well used" SEY splitback that has smoother holes, but I think that it's smoother from all the handling it's seen. Actually, the SEY splitbacks have some fairly sharp edges on the seams too. I have an unmarked 30 rounder with a dull finish that has the best deburring and smoothest edges of all my splitbacks. It also has the best looking spot welds and is very similar in appearance to my "J" marked splitback - but without the sharper edges on the holes. I've got one unused AYP and it seems very well made, much like the SEY's but also feels rough when handled. Just two of my 30's look like the floor plates have ever been off of them and I'd never had any of them apart until tonight. I found one of them had the spring in backwards. I'm pretty sure I've used that one before and it worked OK - seems like it would have been messing up, but didn't. - Bob

PS - The guy I bought the hardback from had two, but the other one wasn't marked. I just noticed today that the one toward the center in Jim's picture (earlier in this thread) doesn't seem to be marked either - at least I can't see it.

Interesting to see how this thread progressed. I've picked up a couple more 30 rounders, a J marked one for $8 (a little surface rust), and an unmarked one (traded a couple of M1 canvas slings) that had all the correct characteristics, very solid, and felt like the J marked ones (much better that the M2 marked ones).
I"m still keeping an eye out for more, but I've sort of moved on to things with bigger bangs (grenades, anyone?).