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Has there ever been such a beast? If I had the resources, I think that I could make a small fortune. Anyone else had the same idea? I take it that the repro scopes just came in a cardboard box eh? Actually, I am more curious because I would like a couple of tins for my scopes. Even a couple of soft cases would do just fine.
I.
Have had the same idea....have seen them advertised on WTS from time to time. No idea of the source or quantities available.
Knowing what I paid for my original stilll causes me sleepless nights!
Actually, it looks like Numrich not only had the scopes, but they also had tins, lens covers and adjusting tools also, all now sadly sold out. I don't know how I missed the other stuff.
Everyone WANTS this stuff but nobody wants to get it put into action. It's called putting your money where your mouth is chaps. A few hardy souls on this forum have done it but, alas, not with the simple things like cheap, wrapped, fabricated, mild steel scope cans that would be an absolute doddle to make....................
Copies readilly available here:Quote:
Originally Posted by ickmann
AAS-SNIPER 98 - Pièces détachées d'armes, sabres, épées
Well, there you go!
I think AAS is of bad reputation, yes? Or is that someone else?
I think "arse' is the one you were thinking of, shurely?
Something stinks....
He is at the War and Piece show, seen him a few times does all repro gear, EURO 995 ( £854) not a bad price for the whole kit to build a No4 T. his No 32 mounts where OK, and good quality.
He's at many of the big euro shows & comes across to Beltring every year. His round-ended tins are quite good but when I bought a few off him some years ago the internal fixings were wrong & we had new replacements made. Mind you, he's probably fixed this by now. He was also into having spurious marks stamped onto the lids, although I advised him to leave them blank for obvious reasons. On one occasion when I saw him in France he saw an original British wire breaker I'd just acquired & was jumping up & down like a frog on fire trying to get it off me so he could get it copied!
I believe his wife is Vietnamese & he gets a lot of the work done out there, although his brackets are made in Eastern Europe, I think, unlike mine or the Sarco variants.....
More useless information.........!
ATB
I have one of the French fellow's repro scope tin boxes and although it's OK the paint job on it is crap and the interior spot welds all came loose on the fittings, not worth the money he is charging in my opinion.
Grant,
I bought about ten off him some years ago & the price was sufficiently low that even with vectoring in the cost of replacement internals it was still worth while. I have kept a couple of the modified examples for myself. Having said that I don't know how much he asks for them these days............I know he sells his No32 brackets for more than I ask for mine.
ATB
The big difference Roger, is that your brackets are called remakes or reproductions while his are "purported" to be originals...
And, I might add, your brackets are of much better quality.
And the UK Military have used your brackets too so they've obviously passed the originality test - which none of the others have..................
Merci beaucoup mes amis!
ATB
P.S.Warren, I'll get your package wrapped ready to post on to you over this coming weekend.
Roger:
These repro scope tin boxes, are they exactly the same size as the originals? the reason I ask is because when I go to put my repro scope tin box in one of my reproduction transit boxes the wooden "button" as they call it in the blueprints used to hold the scope tins down has to be modified and shortened to fit properly even though I build it and install it exactly like the blueprint asks for. Any help would be greatly apprecitated. By the way, the repro scope tins on the French fellow's sight are 195 euros. and come with a repro sight adjuster tool for the mk 1 and 2's.
AAS Sniper 98s boxes do not come with the adjusting tool.
Vendue Neu in the discription means sold naked .
i,e only the box no sight adjusting tool.
I bought one of his boxes early last year.
It was in new condition and my scopes fit tightly in the mount.
The lid is a perfect fit,
There is a number stamped on the lid, no other markings,
and it has the loops for a strap.
I am happy with my purchase.
He also now sells a MK2 tin for 135 euro.
In real life Grant580, most wartime produced things in small arms need slight fitting or adjustment - that's why Armourers exist. Just a few thou here or there was our stock in trade. But that everything was a direct fit.........., the fit you ask about
You could ask the same when you were fitting the fore-end to your rifle.
Grant,
I've not dropped any calipers over the repro tins but to my rather poor Mk1 eyeball the actual tin stampings look very good & very close to the originals. I have always felt it was the interiors that let him down; when he first started doing them we couldn't even get a bracket to fit into some of them; distances apart of the spigots & the thread types being all wrong. However, I assume these defects have long since been corrected. I had not heard about the Mk2 (?) tins - I wonder if these are actually the square tins or the real canvas Mk2 case? I will no doubt see him at the Bourse aux Armes at Albert (Somme) at Easter so will have a look then. He is obviously quite enterprising!!
ATB
I've been in contact with him..via e-mail in regards to purchasing one of the repro tins. If by some miracle my French is good enough ( 18 years in Canada should get me by..) and it comes in, I will post some good pics and include dimensions if anyone wants.
I.
Here are a few pics of the tin I got from AAS Sniper 98.
I have had it for well over a year.
My MK2 and MK3 fit perfectaly, and my repro tool fits in and the lid closes without touching the scope.
I will get one of the MK2 square tins next.
Attachment 19914Attachment 19904Attachment 19905Attachment 19906Attachment 19907Attachment 19908Attachment 19910Attachment 19911Attachment 19912Attachment 19913Attachment 19909
I confess I'm tempted as they're so bleedin' impossible to find - I as yet haven't seen a genuine one for sale at all in the uk in spite of a good deal of hunting around (was offered a repro one once at a lot more than aasinper's. (feel free to pm me if you've got one)Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
Oh and Roger they're the metal mk2s - they take a bit of finding on the site:
AAS-SNIPER 98 - Pièces détachées d'armes, sabres, épées
Thanks PrinzEugen,
Actually I'm taking a genuine tin to the Motorcycle Museum next weekend. A regular customer of mine bought a T off me a year or so ago & has been trying to find a tin ever since, to no avail. I don't really have any spares but he's a good customer..... so I weakened!
Technically both the round & square ended tins are all No8 Mk1's; the Mk2 really is the stiffened canvas case.
ATB
Actually I'm planning to go next Sunday Roger - you ok with a first come first served on the tin? :)
Ooh! Now you've put me on the spot! He did actually spend a substantial amount of money with me, buying (IIRC) a No7 & a 4T with Mk3(?) scope, so I feel somewhat a debt of duty to him.
Dave & I will have a nice selection of rifles there though. I know this isn't the right forum for it so I won't labour the point, but there seems to be quite a bit of interest in M1903's at the moment, so we'll be taking a couple of those as well as the usual 303's.
See you next week.
ATB
Have any of you guys seen the square-cornered repros? I thought that's what I bought at a gun show in PA a while back, but now I'm not so sure.
The one I have has some surface rust and paint bubbling on the back around the hinges, the front has "102" stencilled in 1-inch high white letters, "RIFLE F33724" in 3/8-inch high white letters with the "F33724" stamped into the metal and outlined in white, and "OS.906A", "CASE STG. TEL. No8" and "B&Co." stamped in 1/8-inch high letters. All these markings are on the lid. the only markings on the inside are on a 2-3/16 by 1-3/4-inch piece of paper that is stuck to the underside of the lid with some sort of reddish goop. The paper reads:
"Rifle No.
F33724
Telescopic No.
14881
51-4510"
What had me thinking it was a repro was the price, but from listening to all this now I'm not so sure. Any ideas?
Cheers!
Sounds genuine to me, though I'm not an expert. Post a couple photos and the folks who know can probably say for sure.
I tried posting these last night but bloody Internet Explorer packed up on me... probably another Vista issue...
Anyway, here are the pictures.
Case Stg Tel No 8 Mk I pictures by Longshaor - Photobucket
Sorry for the link, but the files are too large for the site and I don't know how to shrink them.
So, if it is the real deal, what do they usually go for?
Cheers!
It looks original to me. The stencilling is pretty typical, and the patina on the varnished label is hard to replicate. Originals will usually fetch between $500 to as high as $800 back in the heyday two or three years ago. I suspect between the economy and perhaps the replicas filling some of the void, prices may settle down somewhat.
I used to go out with a really nice girl called Jean Strong in the early 70's or so and was at her house in Southampton chattering away to her dad one summer evening and saw in his garage/shed a whole shelf full of these No8 boxes. I'm not joking, about 30 of them............ All khaki painted and most stripped of the internals. I told him I recognised them and he told me that he worked at Bellings and they all used them for their odds and sods at home. His were full of nuts, bolts, screws etc etc.......................
Jeeeeees, what price are they?
DPL,
I sold one today for 300 pounds: How many did you say there were in that garage!?!?
ATB
So, anyone know where to get a carry strap for this thing?
Cheers!
Go to your local saddler. The buckle is a standard horse-harness offering.
What are the correct dimensiones (length) for the strap?
there is a reproduction one for sale on ebay.co.uk
i have dealt with this saddler before and his work is top notch!
Moore Leather
jon Moore's stuff is top notch - been abusing mine for 8 years now - still as strong as leather :)
The question regarding the scope box straps was interesting because when I was writing the little sniper rifle book, I went to see Cooke and Perkins and learned that they had been contracted to make the eye caps and scope box slings......... which they were unable to do but out sourced the operation. Due to difficulty in finding the required length of sling (I told them that we just cut them short anyway, but contracts are contracts.......) they obtained a relaxation in standards and were permitted to supply a two part sling sewn together. There were pages of conditions as you can imagine. They also made other precision parts such as cell housings.
One of the ladies doing the work, an ex Shadwell out-worker/piece worker, provided and was paid for, some exact specification requirement leather in the form of 1" wide lengths of leather of the exact thickness to fit the telescope box loops. This they used. 3 lengths (?) to make two new, acceptable and to spec box slings. During my visit I took a few of the slings and have had them ever since.
The question is this. Can anyone identify exactly what the 'slings' were originally used for. The ende are pretty well clearly shown but........ They are all between 42 and 43" long, 1" wide and approx .125" thick. Anyone out there identify the 'slings' Your sewn two-part sling was very probably made from these!
Thank you Peter for this helpful info.
The strap should be a two piece construction and the total length about 84 to 86". Is the buckle blued or white?
Now I'm confused. The photos Peter posted don't bear any resemblance to the reproduction scope tin straps at the link Colonel Blimp provided.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tinstrap-1.jpg
Buckle blue or white....... neither, brass. You are confused Baal. The 'slings' or straps were USED to make the scope box slings. Not 'as is' but cut sewn and buckled.
And they weren't that colour either Baal. Our issue slings were light tan in colour. The spec stated the chemical protection required and colour. That's what the spec asked for and got. Some slings in my knowledge came through in a light grey 'chrome' finish. This wasn't 'chrome' as in metal but the chemical protection during the tanning
I've raised this thread to the top again as someone else has told me that he also has a couple of these slings. So I thought I'd re-ask anyone out there in forumland if they recognise their origins as (very/most) probably rifle slings as they came from Barrow & Shadwell (an offshoot of the Barrow Hebburn & Gale company who made eye caps and other Army leatherwork etc etc..........).
Do they look like a sling on your pre- or post-war rifle? I've put one on my AK and it fits OK! Thanks again
I have just checked some of my tins and the leather strap on one of them has been spliced together.
The end of the strap has this number impressed in the leather: MC3650, no idea what the relevance is?
Is that MC or MG. Mg could indicate a sling made from an old LMG strap in its life............
Definitely MC.
The buckle is blued and the buckle end is double riveted & not stictched.
Try this link to a company in france- but they aint cheap!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ickmann
AAS-SNIPER 98 - Pièces détachées d'armes, sabres, épées
The spec required that it be stitched with white waxed linen thread of a certain thickness and strength per metre and blah blah blah......... you should see the pages of pure guff. And then, if you requested a relaxation in the standard or spec, there were more pages of it! Nobody ever told the procurement staff that the snipers just cut them short or took them off and used webbing instead ............ then used the straps as belts!
Not carrying strap related (sorry Peter), but just wanted to pass along that Numrich has the Scope Tins back in stock as well. Received one the other day and have another coming in. Figured that I would go with them rather than the vendor in France - never did hear back from him regarding postage..
Anyway, as promised I will post pics and try to get accurate dimensions, weight etc on the tins, Tonight, if I get in at a reasonable time. In the mean time, I can say that on the first one received, the mounting posts are a hair off in spacing but close enough to have the scope mount screws to catch the threads without stripping. My MK2 (converted MKI) fits nicely with the scope caps/protector on. The tin is pretty sturdy in build and in weight.
Ian
I am trying to get a sling for my scope tin made by a military saddler. For this projekt a picture of the two piece sling would be helpful.
Here are some pictures of an original tin strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank LE
It doesn't get any better than that! Don't they sell all that stuff (and the tools to make it?) at Tandy Leather in Calgary?
Thank´s Cold Zero. There is no better way to start my work on the projekt, it should work with your fine pics!!! :cheers:
That's JUST as I remember them Cold Zero. Now you can see the problem they had in getting the sling leather material the complete length and allowed a stitched/sewn join.
I have made a few of these straps in both one piece and joined .. there is a very good supplier of leather in Newcastle (England) that can supply straps to the overall length.
the biggest problem was getting the correct style buckle, the new ones supplied by most leather workers/suppliers are bright shiny brass with very rounded corners ( the original has sharp corners by the roller) and on the new ones there is a step that the roller runs in.
I have been looking on auction web sites for original WD leather straps of the right width and re-using these original buckles..
On the subject of the join Skippy, I came across a few rejected from new where the join was at the 'entry' end of the strap and not at the buckle end. It meant that the join part couldn't be pulled through the loops in the case. Of course, if the join is at the buckle end, it doesn't get pulled through the loops anyway and is therefore OK. I suppose that this was catered for in the relaxation spec but by the time they'd been wrapped up and put into the box anyway, who cared!
looking at the photos of the original one posted by Cold zero, Its not really a "Quality" item... the stitched ends have not been feathered/tapered and the edges have not been finished. (a light line usually drawn on the edge of strap work)
it looks to be hand stitched with an over lapping stitch not the best looking..but perfectly usable
most WD small leather work were issued "in the pink",.... natural "veg" tanned. when it is cut from a fresh hide it is really very pink (flesh coloured) but turns (quite quickly) light brown with age and use.
Why do most modern re-enactors want a best quality product (edged, tapered, and dark "service" drown?) it was never issued like that !!!!
But...... I don't want a pink 07 sling on my No4 !!!!!!!
Here are most of the measurements in mm. and are approx. Did not have the digital calipers on hand. The pic is from the Numrich website. I will post pics of my tins later this evening with more detail. If I missed any critical measurements ( missed the round mounting post dia.:nono:) please let me know so that I can provide. Also will provide weight when I find a scale. Hope this serves some purpose.
Ian
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...scopetin-1.jpg.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_2701-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_2702-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_2705-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_2704-1.jpg
As I said, the L1A1 slings, boxes and a lot of intricate spare parts such as lens housings and slipping scale drums etc etc were contracted to Cooke and Perkins (who don't exist any more) and they sub contracted the leather work to a few old ladies who were out-workers to the leather work industry. Such as Pavlova, Barrows and a few others whom I can't remember until I get my old notes out again. All of their work so far as I know was done at home and by hand. You'll also remember the 81mm Mortar tube leather cups. They did them too.
I think I mentioned it elsewhere but C&P were also contracted to supply new replacement leather Scout Regiment telecope cases but they were too difficult so it was C&P who formulated the later plastic cases that were adopted. On the strength of that I suppose, they suggested a plastic case for the L1A1 and some were produced but were far too weak and the rounded corners would collapse at the first knock.
Their logo was a CP/l\70 or whatever year it was. That's meant to be a WD arrow in the middle!
I hope that some budding future author is writing this all down
This is the strap on my 1955 dated tin. The strap can not be removed due to the spliced joint being to large, it has prbably swollen slightly with age.
It has 3 rivets at the buckle end, instead of the stitching, and the opposite end is marked
MC3650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Roger that. Filed for a future project.
Well, my better half just got back from Calgary and I had her go to Tandy leather for me to pick up some leather strapping so I can make a repro strap for my repro scope tin. They sell the one inch wide straps in various lengths, I got two at 72 inches which will be enough to make a couple without splicing. Only problem is the leather is slightly less than 3/16 inch thick and too thick to go through the steel straps on my repro scope tin. It would appear that the leather can't be any thicker than about 1/8 inch to fit my scope tin. How thick is the leather on your scope tin straps Cold Zero? If my scope tin was a real (non-repro) one, would this thick strap I have fit??
I just measured my original scope tin and the slot looks to be 0.16in deep. 1/8th inch leather seems to be the goal if you're making a strap.
Straps don't seem to make much sense. Here are three cans: one British and two REL Canadian cans. One REL has the split strap and the others: one British and one REL have the one piece strap. Two other straps that I have seem to exhibit similar differences in both length and buckles. Some brass and some steel. Go figure........
Thanks Baal, guess I will be taking those straps back and apparantly they do sell slightly thinner leather at Tandy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baal
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant580
Put a micrometer on the strap along the length, thickness ranged from 2.80mm(0.110") to 3.30mm(0.129")
Just a thought, I've thinned leather by closing it in a vise between two plates or even pounding it between two flat plates. The width of the strap will probably increase a bit though and may have to be trimed a bit to fit in the scope case loops.Quote:
Originally Posted by grant580
Not that easy to get 72" long leather straps and this might be worth trying, Ray
Well, I might have another alternative as my better half also brought me back a very nice (and sharp) "skivving" (sp?) tool. This things is kinda like a razor and I think with practice I could shave enough thickness off this 72 inch belt to make it work. Funny you should say that a 72 inch leather strap is hard to get rayg, Tandy has tons of stuff in their store like that. I guess it must of course been likely an Alberta cow to get a piece of leather that long? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by rayg
....I'd LOVE to see the pages of pure guffQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I put in a Freedom of Information request to the MoD about scope caps, scope tin straps, etc.
Got sweet fanny adams back apart from " nothing on file"
TW*TS
---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------
Interesting picsQuote:
Originally Posted by Cold_Zero
Was surprised to see "single-hand back stitch" used on the reverse of where the buckle is sewn on
The WW2 slings I have seen were all saddle stitched
The one in your pic is also lacking edge-creasing, and the "running loop" is not blocked but still slightly rounded.
Typical 70's gear :lol:
---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------
The ONLY way to do it is to get access to a leather skiver (a bench mounted version)Quote:
Originally Posted by grant580
Looks like a scaled down mangle, but has a big wide sharp blade in it...and a couple of metal rollers.
Insert a test strip - adjust the height of the cut - and as long as you're not losing too much leather you can do the hole strap length in one pass