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De sided to get a K-31 from J&G. my local said they had one so went to look. I was told it did not have a pistol grip so I used this site and a book and thought it might be an earlier 1911 or as i saw here a sporterized one. you guessed it. Sporterized. I passed and ordered through them (FFL) but may be getting a C&R lic. if the K-31 turns out okay. I ordered the one with the walnut stock.
As an advice Dave, take the bolt of the K31 and let it X-ray, cause it can happen that the front locking lug has small and not visible cracks which are making them unsafe. No i don´t want to create a horror scenario, but it had happened that on some excessiv used K31 this lug was broken and the bolt came backwards. If it has no cracks, and thats propably the case, there will be no problem by using the original GP11 or any mild load. I did it with the bolt of my rifle and nothing was to see.
Cracked lugs are extremely rare, no more common than any mauser bolt problems.
Since the 1911 was a regular conversion by Golden State Arms and a few otheras to .308, you won't have to worry about shooting a mild load. Since it easily handles .308 pressures of 50,000 cpu, you have nothing to worry about staying within currently published full load data. We're reloading at 2,500fps with RE17 and Berger 175 VLDs.
Good luck and reload safely.
Latigo
A side note: Haemmerli made/make k31's in .308, 30-06, 300 Winchester Magnum as well as 7.5x55. For the right money one can still be ordered today. That gives you an idea of the receiver strengthn of these rifles.
Latigo
Latigo, yes its indeed very rare that something happens with an K31. But here is an official link to the Swiss Gunmakers society and in that they writ that this can happen. Look at it, its in German but i translated it
Schweizerischer Bndlerverband[COLOR="Silver"] Click at "Aktuelles" And at the left side into the grey bar "Wichtige Mitteilung zum Karabiner31".
Important Message
by Swiss gunsmith and weapons dealer association
Dangerous problems with carabiner 31
In more recent times have occurred carbine 31 with cracked locking lugs. It is highly dangerous with a carabiner having this defect
(K 31) to shoot.
Why?
The 2 locking lugs on either side of the cap and have the task of the gas pressure of 3200 bar to catch. These two locking lugs prevent the closure of the shot is pushed out the back.
But if a defect occurs here the possibility exists that the lock is not guaranteed and will shoot out the lock on the gas pressure to the rear. The injuries to the face are considerable, and then the sight of the objective eye is probably lost or severely damaged.
This must not be!
This defect is usually heralds a crack at right on the locking lug.
The trained eye of the federally licensed gunsmith can detect such defects. In the early stages but only with optical aid. Here it's like people that early detection is an important contribution to health. When present in a weapon that is cracking, should never be shot! This is easily explained.
When present in the one locking lug a crack, the stress on the second lock twice as large and there is a question of time when these tears as well. Will now be shot, the very high gas pressure goes to the closure away from the rear. The shot goes in the proverbial sense, going backwards. Note again what they have facial area behind the closure. This is then destroyed and can not be restored with the best medical science.
Who can make such a defect in the repair?
The federally licensed professional gunsmith, who was trained in the repair of the carbine 31st
What can you do for your safety?
Please select one of the gunsmiths listed below, because only these can make a repair on the carabiner. He will examine the carabiner 31 to this defect now and then you can indulge without concern again the beautiful shooting.
What does it cost?
This control is CHF 35 - including VAT. A well laid amount to maintain health.
On behalf of SBC
the President
Hubert Bonderer
I have read alot about Swiss rifles and have never heard of any problems like that.I will shoot my K31 and K11 with no worries
Hi Rob, this is a " it can happen" not a it must happen at time. It has happened and that mostly at worn out ones. If you will shoot them with normal loads nothing will happen. I shot my G11 without any problem and without fear. The Swiss gunmakers are saying that this can eventually happen with bolts which have the marking "CM" or "MO" on it. Personally i haven´t heard that this happened to an shooter but there is an retired Engineer of the swiss Solothurn AG who said that this can happen. Nothing more, nothing less!
Hi Gunner. My father speaks german and he translated that quite a while ago. There's another story behind all of that and its mostly "crying wolf" without solid reason unless you're a "federally licensed gunsmith" and need to make some Euros. :D
I'll see if I can get him to post here sometime. None of this is any more alarming than any other rifle of that vintage. It is definitely not a weak point in the rifle. Any rifle with lugs can experience the same thing, but how many have you ever heard about? For me its two. Two out of how many hundreds of thousands world wide?
You're right of course. As with any other rifle in the world, older well shot rifles should be watched more closely than a modern rifle, but even modern rifles sometimes have their problems.
If he's going to do anything at all, its should be Magna Fluxed, not xrayed, but I think its a waste of money.
"The trained eye of the federally licensed gunsmith can detect such defects." :lol: Politics and self promotion exists all over, including the Swiss Gunsmith's Association.
Your eye and my eye can detect the same things Gunner, but Magna Fluxing detects what the "trained eye of the federal licensed gunsmith" cannot.
Interesting stuff isn't it? :D Thanks for the translation. I do have one here that's put into correct english, but I'd have to type the whole thing.
Thanks again!
Latigo
Gunner ! You have a PM! :D
Yes Latigo, thats a method to earn money! Same like the rumors about the Blaser R93, but some Swiss veterans knew about troubles with the K31.
I do love it when my threads stir things up and Knowledge is the result. thanks gunner you type english way better than i could german. I guess its typing with an accent. latigo, rob, I started to worry about my purchase and even though I'm fearless I will have my brother in law (tool maker/machinist/ army armorer) check it out. the cost is right. I ordered the G11 ammo and I don't plan on any hot loads. Can any one tell me what the swiss do that requires them to (kick)the butt of their K31. I was told the butts of the rifles (at J&G) are a little beat up. Are we talking drill team stuff.
So, Dave my friend. email me some pics of your new rifle when you get it. also, what kind of safe do you have? I'm looking at the Liberty fatboy. call me if you want to.
I've seen the liberties(at the gun shows) and they look great. My first one is an American Securitythat I bought as an empty shell and did my own interior for 8 rifles a top shelf and 3 side shelves. When I out grew that I got a stack on to hold 36 rifles with 1 full width upper shelf.
My Garands fit but the longer Mausers are too tall. Does Liberty make a tall boy(ha ha)I'll call.
here's a link to the safe i'm looking at Liberty Safe Fatboy - #1 Big Gun Safes in America
Looks great. a little pricey but should protect all those milsurps you have or plan on getting.
Got the K-31 and the butt looks just fine. I can't tell for sure but the walnut stock appears to be laminated. I put a light coat of blo and it looks fine. Or at least no harm done.
I like it so much I ordered a 2nd one from J&G.
pictureshttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rifle050-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rifle051-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rifle052-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rifle053-1.jpgLooking at the photos I realize the lower one has a nicer stock(grain and in nicer shape) and it is not cleaned like the top one. I cleaned the top one by rubbing blo on it so not really cleaned just treated with oil. what is recommended to lightly clean what appears to be a worn glossy finished K31. Do I use lacquer thiner and then 0000 steel wool and then blo or just oil and enjoy?
I like more the upper one, it looks like its made of a sort of that expensive wood they use in luxury cars. Keep the aluminium sleeve clear from that green sh§§! Have fun!
Dave don't use steel wool on your stocks. It leaves tiny particles embedded in the wood and can rust later and ends up looking odd. Use 000 Copper Wool.
BLO is used on walnt stocks for sure, but I greatly prefer Tung Oil, and like 6 coats with Copper Wool rubdowns between coats.
These are Tung Oil finished. A soft, warm glow.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/DT005-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Mount004-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...diopter4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/1911a-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rilltap2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/315503-1.jpg
Even this 1911/.308 conversion is Tung Oil.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../01/308d-1.jpg
I like the stuff. :D
Very nice. I will consider your method. I know I need raw tung oil as I used the other tung oil on a new CMP stock and it came out nice but not the effect I was looking for. Nothing lost.
One thing I would add is I do like these K-31s as they are, just want to clean them and protect them, and have them come out in a natural way if you know what I mean.
And yours look to be natural in the pictures.
Dave, actually shellaq is usual for the Beech stocks and blo for the walnut. Post pics when you're done.
Thanks!
Latigo
Dave, my Bro.
Those rifles look great. I wish I had the disposable income to buy some more guns.
I still haven't found the helicopter, it may be lost forever.
The lower one is in the nicest shape so I looked at it closer and there is no swiss stamp on the side of the butt but there is a 2 in a circle on the left side forward of the sling cut out. Might I think this is a replacement stock?
Dave, check here for any and all rifle markings.
Swiss Rifle Markings
And here for links to other rifle info
*NEW members! Please READ THIS before posting!* in Straight-Pull Rifles Forum
latigo I did get all the info on the markings printed out, thanks again.