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HISTORIC ORIGINAL GAS TRAP M1 GARAND RIFLE : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
Attachment 19935
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it sure will be an interesting auction - not sure it will meet reserve
How did a gas trap make it through WWII from Panama to Europe, unaltered, and with the GI to whom it was issued? Small odds of that happening! Good job documenting it.
Heard tell the experts all agree that this is the real deal. Fine looking gas trap!
a person on jouster stated this gas trap was missing the lock bar rear sight, another on the CMP forum stated that the follower was wrong and also the lock bar rear sight was missing too !
It is crazy what is out there and what people think.
At least the guy that thought it should have a lock bar admitted he didn't know and was trying to learn. The other guy is still carrying on. Makes one want to give up on the CMP forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I AM curious how that rifle would make it from pre war through training in England to D-Day to Market Garden to the Bulge to V-E Day without a broken part or armourer rebuild happening. Unless it wasn't shot and what's the odds of that. Some of you have done that and know how many rounds it's possible to go though in a short time. And documented. I read the ad and don't recall it exactly saying he jumped into France with it and carried it from beginning to end. I believe he was issued it. I believe he managed to get it home before the war so it didn't get lost in battle or destroyed. But I'm sorry, I just don't think he carried it from the beginning to the end. I know a Canadian and an American who were issued Thompsons (I know they aren't M1s) and they each told me they went through four guns during the three years and two years respectively that they fought. I just wouldn't pay for the story. I would LOVE the gun however!
Not sure, but as I re read the GB ad it seems that he may be just telling the story of the veteran that owned the rifle, not really saying anyplace that it is the rifle that vet used while in the service. That is just how I read it, after reading a few times. He states " The veteran was pictured holding the "Gas Trap" talking about his service during WWII." In the newspaper article the vet states “he still owns the M1 rifle issued in Panama to replace the broomstick rifle used in training”.
He never says that the M1 rifle the vet was issued in Panama and still owns is the gas Trap rifle. I think he is saying that the fact the vet was pictured in the newspaper holding a GT is what prompted the collector to contact him and eventually buy the GT rifle. If anyone really is interested the seller posted his phone number in the ad.
I did have to ask my wife to help me up off the floor when I saw the price. And I thought M1C's were expencive. Thats a true amazing rifle- Jay
The locking bar rear sight wasn't used until somewhere near the 500,000 serial number range. Up until that time the flush nut rear sight was used as is pictured on the rifle. The follower was changed from the early type to the later type around serial number 44,000 serial number range. Those two items are correct as shown.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
gas trap serial number 46195 was sold in 2000, then resold two more times, the data sheet was just about the same as s/n 46097 except the revision 2 bolt had a C11 heat lot
That particular rifle hasn't seen one day of combat. I saw combat in RVN and rifles got beat up quick. I have a hard believing the story. Sorry, but I am being honest. If the rifle was stolen early on and sent home, I would be a believer. But that rifle hasn't seen one day of combat.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...de_large-1.jpg
I think it is possible
Guadalcanal
Battle-stained Amer. infantryman with weapon after a bloody battle for a 1,500-ft. peak euphemistically called the Grassy Knoll.
Location: Guadalcanal, Solomon Islands
Date taken: 1943
Photographer: Ralph Morse
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...34_large-1.jpg
A lot of guns in a unit didn't get used very hard -- the Colonel's driver, the Supply Sergeant, the Company Clerk, the Cooks, to name a few. This one was at least used, as witness the clip-tap dimples in the stock.
Bob; No smart-a$$ intended by me. I just don't believe this rifle jumped in combat. It went somewhere, for sure, but into combat, "NO". Troops hardly have the time to clean a weapon when moving in combat. My life depended on my M16 running right, do you really think a Gas trap was trusted and then carried into combat when no one else had a Gas Trap? Hidden in a duffle bag and packed away? Likely. I ate 1 meal a day when on operations in RVN, was sick and beat all of the time. The Colonels Driver?, you have seen too much Hollywood. This was a jump unit, jeeps?, into a C-47 you mean? The rifle is the real deal, the rifle stands on its own merits. But the story seems too contrived to be real. I wish I could have talked to that vet. My Uncle was at Bastone and I did talk to him about it. Just my $.02.
This rifle looks worn to me. Remember it didn't stay in service for 70 years like most you see today that are worn thin. This fella used it for one battle from what I read and I see a worn gas cylinder and other parts. I am betting my bottom dollar he oiled the crap out of it from what I see on the wood so you do not see the beating the stock took to well and he may have cleaned the stock for all we know.
Arguing that this rifle should look completely tethered and torn is ridiculous. Even in war some guys took care of their weapons out of habit. Rick B
I'm not arguing anything. Problem is the rifle looks very good to me. Wished I owned it. The rifle stands on its own merits. A keeper, for sure. The "story" attched to it seems contrived, again, to me.
Steve-Calif. and the other doubters out there: The rifle as well as the story are 100% legit. How do I know? Because I am very familiar with everybody envolved with the rifle, the vet, and the story. We all lived within 5 miles of each other in the Hampton Roads area. The veteran was a friend of mine and a member in our local VFW, the collector who first bought the rifle after the newspaper article in 1990 came out was a well know local businessman, and the gentleman now selling the rifle is a friend and local retired businessman and also a high end martial arms collector. The veteran was a very modest man, highly decorated, and not one to tell tales. He had no idea in the world the rifle he carried at the Battle of the Bulge was anything other than an ordinary M1 Garand. When the collector mentioned in the ad contacted him and offered him in 1990 money what was equal to the price of a new car, any car, he decided after much thought to sell the rifle. When the collector passed away from cancer in 2006 the person now selling the rifle paid his widow what again is equivalent to a new car. So when I read the forum posts, especially on the cmp forum it about made me sick to my stomach about i.e. the rifle being fake, the vet getting cheated, rifle wasn't used in combat etc. etc. I knew these things to be absolutely false and felt the need to post on this forum. I sincerely hope this very important M1, the hero that carried it in WWII memory, and the nice gentleman now selling it doesn't get muddied up in all the false rhetoric.
My uncle was at the Bulge in the Airborne at Bastone. Good guy, for sure. Sorry I never met the vet, sounds like I would have liked him.
This is from the G.B. ad. I read it over and over and I don't see where the seller says that the G.T. rifle was the one the vet carried in combat.
" The rifle was purchased directly from the original vet whom a very astute collector (he passed away in 2006) spotted in a July, 31, 1990 local newspaper article. The veteran was pictured holding the "Gas Trap" talking about his service during WWII. In the newspaper article the vet states “he still owns the M1 rifle issued in Panama to replace the broomstick rifle used in training”. The collector subsequently found the veterans name in the local phone book and called him. He later purchased the rifle directly from him after becoming friends"
I think the key is "The veteran was pictured holding the "Gas Trap" talking about his service during WWII." and that “he still owns the M1 rifle issued in Panama to replace the broomstick rifle used in training”. No place does it state or imply that the Gas Trap rifle and the M1 rifle he was issued in Panama and still owns, are one in the same.
I am sure the seller knows that he doesn't have to tell a story to sell that rifle. I think he just wanted to share the vets story.