Just in case you missed it - Reserve not met
HISTORIC ORIGINAL GAS TRAP M1 GARAND RIFLE
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Just in case you missed it - Reserve not met
HISTORIC ORIGINAL GAS TRAP M1 GARAND RIFLE
$50, 000. reserve. Historic rifle? The WWII vet apparently never claimed any history. The "Historic" claim comes from the dealer who is selling it.
Saved this auction information for posterity to benefit future research by our members … ;)
Regards,Quote:
Gunbroker Auction # 214621828 (2/17/2011) - HISTORIC ORIGINAL GAS TRAP M1 GARAND RIFLE
Seller says:
Gentlemen offering for your consideration is the most historic rifle I have ever had the pleasure of owning and now offering for sale. It truly is the most interesting battle documented M1 “Gas Trap” Garand Rifle I’m sure in existence. Quite possibly any M1 for that matter, much less an original “Gas Trap”. Its provenance is impeccable. The rifle was purchased directly from the original vet whom a very astute collector (he passed away in 2006) spotted in a July, 31, 1990 local newspaper article. The veteran was pictured holding the "Gas Trap" talking about his service during WWII. In the newspaper article the vet states “he still owns the M1 rifle issued in Panama to replace the broomstick rifle used in training”. The collector subsequently found the veterans name in the local phone book and called him. He later purchased the rifle directly from him after becoming friends. The veteran just happened to be a former paratrooper in the 551st Parachute Infantry Battalion (GOYAS).
Let me tell you a little about who the 551st Parachute Infantry Battalion were. The 551st was originally commissioned in Panama to take the French Caribbean island of Martinique, they were shipped instead to Europe. His battalion which spearheaded the attack against the Germans at the “Battle Of The Bulge” in January 1945, had been lost to God and history. The unit was completely decimated and suffered 85% casualties including its popular commanding officer Col. Wood Joerg. Of the 643 officers and enlisted men at the start of the battle, only 110 men survived (14 officers and 96 enlisted men). Nowhere were casualties higher than in Col. Wood Joerg’s 551st Parachute Infantry Battalion. Subsequently the 551st ceased to exist as a unit. On January 27, 1945 General James Gavin in Juslenville, Belgium informed the remaining men that the battalion was being inactivated and the remaining soldiers would be absorbed into the 82nd Airborne Division. Because so few men survived and personnel records disappeared it would be decades before the 551st would even be labeled “The Lost Battalion”. On February 23, 2001 Army Chief of Staff General Eric K. Shinseki awarded the Presidential Unit Citation for extraordinary heroism during the “Battle Of The Bulge” to the unit during an official ceremony at the Pentagon.
Now about the rifle. The rifle is a late production “Gas Trap” M1 Garand s/n 46097, and was manufactured at Springfield Armory July 1940. It is absolutely original down to the last screw and has been documented on page 230 in Billy Pyles book “The Gas Trap Garand”. The rifle of course shows actual service and battle use, although still remains attractive in appearance. I copied the rifles data sheet in the photos below for anyone interested on what parts and drawing numbers are in the rifle. Plenty of photos are available in the ad below. Like I said earlier this rifle is 100% original down to the last screw and absolutely not a later restoration.
Along with the rifle the buyer will receive the July, 31, 1990 newspaper article of the vet holding the rifle, a subsequent April 1, 2001 front page local newspaper article on the vet describing his participation in the “Battle Of The Bulge”, his personal copy of Dan Morgan’s hardcover 548 page book “The Left Corner Of My Heart, The Saga Of The 551st Parachute Infantry Battalion” (Very interestingly there is a photo of a member of the 551st actually firing a “Gas Trap” while they were training in Panama), Billy Pyles book “The Gas Trap Garand” where the rifle is documented on page 230, his cut-down M1 Bayonet, and his Basic Field Manual, U.S. Rifle Caliber .30, M1.
Gentlemen this rifle should be in a museum or should be highly cherished by the lucky winning bidder on this auction. It surely is fitting for the best museum or private collection. Should somebody be the winning bidder I will personally deliver the rifle. It is much to valuable to risk shipping.
Doug
Not Historic - You must be JokingQuote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
It is a Garand - "The greatest battle implement ever devised" that is historic.
It is a Gas Trap - one of only a handful that survive today - that is also historic.
It is an original Gas Trap, rare indeed - "Determining that the components of a particular rifle are correct and original can be materially assisted by comparing their configurations and markings to those of KNOW ORIGINAL rifle in the same or approximate serial number range. To this end we include the following completed data sheets on a number of known original rifles" Billy Pile THE GAS TRAP GARAND
The 551st was in Panama - The 1st Battalion, 551st Parachute Infantry Battalion was activated on 26 November 1942 at Fort Kobbe in the Panama Canal Zone
There were gas traps in Panama in 1942
Attachment 20925
A Panamanian girl gives U.S. service member water during a U.S. training exercise in Panama, 1942. The defense of the Panama Canal occupied U.S. military forces in Panama during World War II and the Cold War.
I am not sure what is more rare and historic - a surviving 551st vet or an original Gas Trap.
If you carefully read the article in the GB add the paper states "_____ was on duty in the C Company orderly room in Leaon, France, when the 551st received word of a Nazi counte rattack which became the Battle of the Bulge"
Seems to imply that the vet was at least at some point not on the line.
" The WWII vet apparently never claimed any history" - they seldom ever admit that anything they did was historic.
It appears to be a bigger leap in logic to suggest that a dealer found a vet (551st) and a Original Gas Trap after the fact and concocted this story. - "Kramer, my friend , that is one ripping good yarn"
Mark,
Very good post. Much better provenance than just looking at a worn weapon and determining it has a lot of history.
The rifle sold after the auction ended.
Historic what? As best as I can tell the Vet never claimed he carried THAT rifle in combat. He never claimed he carried that rifle in Europe, as best as I can tell. You need to read, re-read and then read again all of the claims. A very desirable collector rifle, but read the claims again. That's all I am saying. By the way, I carried a Garand and a Carbine and an M16 in RVN.
On the 1911 forums you can count on someone proclaiming that they wouldn't want a nice condition "Safe Queen" as they have no history, but if we judge all military weapons by the amount of fully documented history they have we end up with virtually none having any history. That makes everything much easier as they can be priced according to rarity, condition, and originality rather than some imaginary history.
The selling price of the Gas Trap did not reflect any real or imagined history so it becomes a mute point.
Guys, this rifle stands on its own merits. Why it has been turned into a "Story Gun" is beyond me. I have a very good friend who paid REAL MONEY for an M1911A1 that was owned by Somerset Maugham, the famous author. I asked to see the provenance. My buddy whips out a screwdriver, and pulls off the grips. On one grip (plastic) someone had scratched "SM" on the inside panel. My buddy explains this is the proof of historic ownership. I almost fell out of the chair. I want concrete proof, that's all I seek. The truth.
The story came with the rifle, and I don't blame the seller for using it. It does not appear that it influenced anyone to buy the story instead of the gun, so I don't see the problem.
:thup: Got to agree 100 %.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
____and his wife,______ display medals and other honors he was awarded during his military service. ____ is holding an M-1 Garand rifle and its bayonet, Weapons he carried during World War II. The dandy resident recently formed a local chapter of the 82nd Airborne Division
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....4&d=1298114034
note above the CIB on his jacket
The Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) is the U.S. Army combat service recognition decoration awarded to soldiers—enlisted men and officers (commissioned and warrant) holding colonel rank or below, who personally fought in active ground combat while an assigned member of either an infantry or a Special Forces unit, of brigade size or smaller, any time after 6 December 1941. The CIB and its non-combat analogue, the infantry skill-recognition Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB) were simultaneously created during World War II as primary recognition of the combat service and sacrifices of the infantrymen who would likely be wounded or killed in numbers disproportionate to those of soldiers from the Army’s other service branches
well there you have it right from the paper he carried it in WW2 - and he has a CIB he was in combat
think the proof sufficient
Mark--I, too, have a CIB. Proof of what? We are discussing the rifle. Not our awards and decorations. The story that is being attached to the rifle is odd, at best. Issued in Panama and carried to the Bulge? And then carried home after the war. Odd to me, and not ringing true to me. I have been there and done that. I was issued an M16 in Saigon and turned it in at the same warehouse in Saigon. The Army actually keeps track of weapons. Hard to believe? True. Everybody packed up their Garand and marched home with it in 1945? No. I think this Vet bought that Garand in 1955(?) and held on it. It had real meaning to him. He is the real deal, the rifle is the real deal, I just don't buy the story, those are my personal feelings. My $.02. By the way, my Uncle was at the Bulge in the Airborne and I have some interest in these matters.
Edit: found the data reading one of the newspaper clippings.
"The veteran was pictured holding the "Gas Trap" talking about his service during WWII. In the newspaper article the vet states “he still owns the M1 rifle issued in Panama to replace the broomstick rifle used in training”.
Would this mean the veteran brought back TWO gas trap rifles, if the one sold could not have been the one he was issued in Panama?
I suppose he wrote the article? Nothing he said has shown up. That is part of what is bothering me-its stuff he didn't say. What did the Vet write? What did he author? The Army had full-junk on the bunk inspections every Saturday AM. Everything was inspected. Foot lockers, wall lockers, everything. No civilain clothing was allowed in WWII. When guys went on leave they still wore their uniforms. There was no way to that get that rifle from Panama to Europe and then carried home. Exactly how many troop ships was he on? Never inspected while boarding ship? Please. His officers, his First Sgt turned a blind eye while he stole a US Army rifle? Please. That rifle shows no battle scars. It looks every bit a Range Queen. Sorry, nice story, good guy, but the story has holes in it.
One more thing: That article shows displays a photograph of himself taken after he finished parachute school at 17. Nonsense pure nonesense. Age 17 with a CIB??? After he finished parachute school with a CIB? Photograph taken in 1945(?) I guess AFTER he was awarded the CIB. The story has holes in it.
I'm not taking sides, but Steve is right about one thing: WWII vets say they scared them to death about smuggling something home. Bags were searched and they were told that if anything were found, they would be charged and not allowed to go home. Almost nobody felt it was worth that. I have no doubts that some guys found a clever way to take something, as witness those MP40s in closets, but it was uncommon. Field Grade officers and air crew had an easier time.
Following WWI the government found that it had about 70% of the Model 1911 pistols it started with. Anyone that thinks weapons were not brought home hasn't been at collecting very long. In later wars security was tightened up, but it was very lax in WWI and WWII. You were warned not to bring any U.S. weapons home, but more than a few did. If not for those that brought their weapons home, fewer original specimens would be in our collections today.
I feel sure that the person that wrote the article never envisioned that it would be dissected to the point of Clinton speak and determining what the meaning of the word IS is. In the end the rifle IS what it is, and I know that the person that bought the rifle is one happy camper, story or no story.
Bringing home weapons.
I have an uncle who was in the Navy. Inlisted when he was 16.
His brothers were all in the service. My dad in the Army, my other two uncles in the Navy.
He had gramps lie about his age because he thouhgt the war would end before he could serve.
He was on and LST during the invasions of the Philippines, and was on the same LST until the war was over. Even transported Japanese soldiers from Korea to Japan after the surender.
During the Philippine campaigns there was alot of trading going on between the Army guys and Navy guys. He traded a supply sgt. for a brand new carbine. He kept it in his bunk the entire time. When he shipped home he took it apart and put it in socks in his sea bag.
He came home and his bag was sent to Great Lakes Naval Station months later. He got notified that his bag was there and took gramps Cadillac up there to pick it up. When he got to the gate there were Shore Patrol inspecting the bags. He said he was nervous they would find the carbine and some other things he was bringing home. He played dumb that he could not remember the combination of the lock and faked trying to open it a couple of times. Finally they told him to throw the bag in the trunk and get the XXXX out of there.
I saw the rifle a couple of times growing up. He sold it in the late 60's and I have been on a quest to find it.
This is a true story and I'm sure it happened countless times during and after the war.....Frank:cheers:
Understand this the Vet here is a true hero. That Gas Trap is a rare bird. I very much respect these guys. My own uncle was at Bastone in Dec 1944. Airborne all the way. That particular uncle brought home a duffle bag full of P38 pistols. Gave them away for years. But he did not bring home a Garand. Enough said.
Legally any souvenir firearms or equipment brought home by WWII GI's were suppose to be approved and a document issued listing the items, but that was not always done either.
Yep and I bet now one would believe a Ruger 30 Carbine would come with bring back papers either let alone a four digit first run of production. I love this little piece. I learned anything is possible. Rick B
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---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------
Or that the CMP would have let go of a Winchester Educational Garand to me. Rick B
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"uncle who was in the Navy"
Yes, Navy guys and air crew who traded for stuff could get it out easier because they were already aboard their rides home. Doggies had to get on something and be searched in the boarding line. I knew a doctor who just took his Singer home, nobody even asked to look in his bag.
Pistols, of course, were easier. You could take a 1911 down and hide the parts a lot easier than a rifle. Receiver and slide in your arm pits! :)
Geez, nice stuff, Rick, I'm jealous!
My uncle served and was stationed at Fort Indiantown Gap.
As he relates it was not uncommon for a GI to ask to hide something under his bunk - only to be picked up later after outprocessing. One such incident was a bag of looted pistols from some museum in europe.
World War II expansionWorld War II began the strategic importance of the Gap. It was one of the nation's most important Army training camps and served as a staging area for the New York Port of Embarkation. Seven U.S. Army divisions were given final training at the Gap, prior to being shipped overseas.[1] Construction of the installation began almost immediately. Thirteen thousand workmen were called in to construct over 1,400 buildings, including headquarters buildings, three fire stations, two guest houses, a bus station, nine chapels, two service clubs, four huge theaters, a large sports arena and a 400 bed Hospital.[1] The Gap also served as a demobilization site for many units returning home from the European Theater of Operations after the war ended.
One of my good buddies had a very unfortunate incident at the "Gap". He was in the latrine and his steel pot fell into sit down toilet. His Drill Sgt. fished out the steel pot and made my buddy wear the pot all traing day long. A very long day!
My dad was young enough that he joined the Navy fairly late in the war. Before he enlisted, a friend received a Thompson submachine gun sent home by that guy's brother. My dad and his friend spent months scouring every gun store for ammo, buying bullets hand-fulls at a time, and finally had a magazine's worth each to plink with. Stuff did come home.
Bob
I had an uncle in Bastone with the airborne too and I have his Garand bayonet he brought back. Had two cousins in Korea, one pilfered a 1911 and several hundred bullets sewn up in the bottom of his duffel bag and the second managed to bring a fully functional M2 carbine home.