No#4 1944 T CDN Long Branch Lee Enfielld Sniper scope with spider optics?

Hi

I am looking at a 1944 T Long Branch Lee Enfield that has a matching scope with Spider sites inside the scope?

Is this a scope that is rare or never existed?

Thanks
Adam

adameveringham@hotmail.com

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the question?
What are spider sites
if it exists, and you've got it, how did it never exist?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the question?
What are spider sites

---

I think it may refer to this in the Wikipedia definition of a reticle, but I'm not sure … :dunno:

Quote:

---

Reticle

Wire crosshairs

The original crosshairs in fact used hair or spiderweb, as it was thin and strong. Many modern scopes use wire crosshairs, which can be flattened to various degrees to change the width. These wires are usually silver in color, but appear black when backlit by the image passing through the scope's optics. Wire reticles are by nature fairly simple, as they require lines that pass all the way across the reticle, and the shapes are limited to the variations in thickness allowed by flattening the wire; duplex crosshairs, and crosshairs with dots are possible, and multiple horizontal or vertical lines may be used. The advantage of wire crosshairs is that they are fairly tough and durable, and provide no obstruction to light passing through the scope.

---

Regards,
Doug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the question?
What are spider sites
if it exists, and you've got it, how did it never exist?

---

Quite simple really, is it a fake or were their any scopes made, that did not have the usual type if pattern inside the scope. I am being told this is a rare scope with a different type of siting view than the standard CDN REL.

Thanks

---------- Post added at 06:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 AM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badger

I think it may refer to this in the Wikipedia definition of a , but I'm not sure … :dunno:



Regards,
Doug

---

Yes reticle.

---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 AM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajeee

Quite simple really, is it a fake or were their any scopes made, that did not have the usual type if pattern inside the scope. I am being told this is a rare scope with a different type of siting view than the standard CDN REL.

Thanks

---------- Post added at 06:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 AM ----------




Yes reticle.

---

It would appear that you actually understand what I am asking. Was their any rare scopes or prototypes used on Long Branch No #4 T.

Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajeee

Quite simple really, is it a fake or were their any scopes made, that did not have the usual type if pattern inside the scope. I am being told this is a rare scope with a different type of siting view than the standard CDN REL.

---

I've never heard of it, or seen any references to this in any published material.

Before I'd even consider buying anything like that with those claims, I'd ask the seller for pics of the scope, or other visual content which could be examined by the many expert Enfield authors and collectors here to see if there is any veracity to his claims ... ;)

Regards,
Doug

It would appear that you actually understand what I am asking. Was their any rare scopes or prototypes used on Long Branch No #4 T.

Thanks

PM sent re this/your comment.....................

But yes, there were other variations of grat pattern in versions of the No32

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badger

I've never heard of it, or seen any references to this in any published material.

Before I'd even consider buying anything like that with those claims, I'd ask the seller for pics of the scope, or other visual content which could be examined by the many expert Enfield authors and collectors here to see if there is any veracity to his claims ... ;)

Regards,
Doug

---

Thank you for your assistance I am going to look at this gun today. I just wondered as to what the unusal optics might be that he was referring too.
'Spider optics" is the term he used, not mine.

I suppose I will know when I see it.

Adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajeee

Thank you for your assistance I am going to look at this gun today. I just wondered as to what the unusal optics might be that he was referring too.
'Spider optics" is the term he used, not mine.

I suppose I will know when I see it.

Adam

---

I had never heard the term before, but it's an interesting phrase ... :D

In addition to being a trained and highly experienced military Armourer, Peter Laidler has authored two excellent books about the No.4(T) sniper rifles and their No.32 scopes. They are titled "An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No.4(T) Sniper Rifle", which he co-authored with Ian Skennerton and his own dedicated work, "Telescope Sighting No.32".

If you're really interested in some in-depth learning about the No.4(T) sniper rifles and the No.32 series of scopes, their history, evolution, repair and adjustments for shooting, we'd highly recommend those two books, which are pictured below.

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...Laidler-HC.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...32-Laidler.jpg

Regards,
Doug

Incidentally, the other grat patterns that you can occasionally find in No32 variants are 'fairly' easy to replace back to the ususl spec so please don't be put off by one that has a different grat/reticle pattern.

I say 'fairly' easy........... That's 'fairly' easy if you have the riught kit but it can be done

Sounds like you have the reticule from a 71 scope. I've replaced a few and most seem to come from "down under"
drop me a PM if you want it changed..

It is a Canadian Long Branch with a Alaskan scope

All the numers match the original container and gun mount etc. The gun starts with 74L. It does appear to be in lovely condition. I guess the next question is Whats it worth?

Adam

Lots and lots, IF it's the real deal.

HI

Its an Alaskan scope on a Long Branch all matching. 74Lxxx with matching container and scope box mount all seriALED THE SAME.

Thanks
Adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajeee

HI

Its an Alaskan scope on a Long Branch all matching. 74Lxxx with matching container and scope box mount all seriALED THE SAME.

Thanks
Adam

---

Hi Adam ... :)

It's going to very challenging for anyone to answer your question without a lot more information and preferably pics ... :dunno:

If all correct and an authentic Lyman Alaskan Long Branch sniper, then you're looking at a rare piece which is highly sought after and very valuable. :thup:

... or, you're looking at a "put together", built that way for purposes unknown ... :thdown:

One way to tell and get a hint is the asking price .... :)

The best way to tell if the seller is being genuine, would be to ask for first right of refusal and take some pics to post here. Many of the members here have forgotten more about these kinds of pieces than either you or me will ever know, so they will give you the best advice, but it's a waste of everyone's time if you can't show them what your seeing when you're looking at the piece, hence the need for quality close up pics. ;)

Regards,
Doug

ps: something else you can do is type in the Google Custom Search Engine located at the top right corner of the forums (white box), the phrase long branch lyman alaskan and read the posts that turn up with that search criteria.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badger

Hi Adam ... :)

It's going to very challenging for anyone to answer your question without a lot more information and preferably pics ... :dunno:

If all correct and an authentic Lyman Alaskan Long Branch sniper, then you're looking at a rare piece which is highly sought after and very valuable. :thup:

... or, you're looking at a "put together", built that way for purposes unknown ... :thdown:

One way to tell and get a hint is the asking price .... :)

The best way to tell if the seller is being genuine, would be to ask for first right of refusal and take some pics to post here. Many of the members here have forgotten more about these kinds of pieces than either you or me will ever know, so they will give you the best advice, but it's a waste of everyone's time if you can't show them what your seeing when you're looking at the piece, hence the need for quality close up pics. ;)

Regards,
Doug

ps: something else you can do is type in the Google Custom Search Engine located at the top right corner of the forums (white box), the phrase long branch lyman alaskan and read the posts that turn up with that search criteria.

---

Hi I will get some pictures up as soon as I can but it wil be a few days as it is quite a trek to get the pictures.

Cheers
Adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajeee

Hi I will get some pictures up as soon as I can but it wil be a few days as it is quite a trek to get the pictures.

Cheers
Adam

---

Roger that ... :thup:

Regards,
Doug

We have a box/chest for one of these that identified it as a 'sniper rifle' but that's been painted out and overpainted 'TELESCOPE rifle' probably in view of the abysmal performance of the Lyman in the sniper role

Hi Gentlemen

I was finally able to pick up the rifle today I will hopefully have pictures up tomorrow.

The Long Branch N#4 is dated 1944, serial Number 74L0318
Itis matching to all its parts It also has stampings in the wood by the trigger "C" broadarrow as well as a letter "B" over the number 32 in front forestock under the bottom.

The bracket that holds the scope mount has a small marking. un-readable (small)
The scope mount has the serial number of the rifle 74L0318 in it.

The scope it self has 4392S stamped in the windage dial. and is stamped 4392S beside the end of "ALASKAN" but very tiny.

The scope container has the rifles serial number outside as well as inside the box with the serial number of the scope again (4392S).
The scope container is stamped "CASE SGT TEL N018 MARK I" there is "C" stamped above that. It is also stamped "C G B 186A" and then "R.E.L. CANADA 1943" underneath that.

There is a peice of tape on the scope box with the name "BOUDRIAS" and a unlegable number. I have found 2 Boudrias that served one a SGT and the other a private in the service corps.


The box is definately ww2 Canadian sniper box and does match the rifle.

Also the rifle is stamped in the wood at the back of the bolt with the scopes serial number "4392S" and on the opposite side under the stock it is stamped as well as "B"over the number "33" and a "C" broadarrow and what appaers to be a diamond shape stamping.

Sounds nice. Can't wait to see the pix.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajeee

I was finally able to pick up the rifle today I will hopefully have pictures up tomorrow.

---

If you have any problems posting pics (some people do.. :lol: ), then email them to me at badger@milsurps.com and I'll re-size them if necessary, then host and insert them into this thread on your behalf ... :thup:

Regards,
Doug

Here are the pics ..... :thup:

Thanks
Adam

That's about as sweet as it gets. Nice score!

Congratulations on the purchase. I hope I'm as lucky to find a Long Branch sniper some day.

Good kit. And complete! Outstanding.

Hi Guys

A special thanks to Badger for posting the pictures for me.

Cheers Guys:thup:
Adam

Hi Guys

Now that the mystery is solved, as to what it was. My big question is what is it worth? Either for insurance purposes, or if I were to sell it?

Does any one have any idea on a fair market value? Please PM or email me.

adameveringham@hotmail.com

Thanks
Adam

Picture 2, bottom row. EIS indicates Equipment Issue Schedule. This equates to the UK CES. The EIS could be found on the Canadian .30 Brownings that came back from Germany. Just as a matter of interest

It's interesting that this kit was still in the Canadian system until well into the early 60's 13 figure B1/NSNumber era. Anyone know what the former VAOS catalogue number of the Lyman T's was. On out chest it states something like
VAO CAT B1-NIV indicating that it is B1 for a rifle but NOT IN (the UK Military) VOCABULARY.

These rifles were issued out to the emerging West European Armies post war but they didn't fit into the training programme......... I've written extensively about this here or the other forum

I'd hazard a guess this might be one of the three such rifles that apparently ended up issued or almost issued to the Rangers a few years back, until wiser persons unknown saw to it that they escaped such a miserable fate.

At least that is the story I was told, by a reliable source.

Rajee, thanks for getting those pics posted. They have solved a long time question I've had over a DCRA conversion to 7.62x51 that I have. There are 6 holes drilled into the side of the receiver. All of the markings on the flat have been scrubbed. All of the furniture and metal on the rifle are LB marked.
Someone posted pics for me of this rifle a few years ago. The consensus was, there wasn't any consensus because no one could place the spacing of the holes. They certainly didn't match the holes d&ted for the No32 scope mount pads.

On a brighter note, they align exactly the same as the screws on your base rail mount.
That doesn't make my rifle any more valuable but it does fill in a niche in its history. Thanks for posting.

Maybe you could put those pics uip again bear hunter. I say this because if it were a stripped down ex Lyman rifle, surely someone on this forum would have identified it straight away, even by a quick glance at the locating pin positions. No?

Hi

Hi Surpmil

This gun was in the last 10 guns that were actually schedualed for detruction (meltdown). They were liberated from surplus through high up connections he got 2 of them and the rest went to some senior officers.

I did aquire it from the officer who recovered the 2 he has kept 1.

Thanks
Adam

Peter, no one twigged on it. As I said, it's been scrubbed of maker marks. I don't know who did it but if yoo PM me with an email address, I will be glad to send you some pics. It's here somewhere, just don't seem to be able to locate them.