My new retro

Got a sweet deal on a complete 1977 vintage SP1 kit (minus stripped lower and bolt catch). I replaced the birdcage with a USGI 3 prong, and the trapdoor stock with an early M16 srock. I know a NODAK SPud lower would be best, but the lower was a present from my son. I gave my son my retro shorty (less receiver), so he picked up 2 JD Machine Tech lowers in San Diego and gave me one. I picked up an offset adapter for the large hole SP1 upper and a USGI I added a VN era OD nylon M14-M16 sling, and a vintage Chu Hoi mag bag and original comic book manual and accessories. These. are the first pictures. They are crummy indoor photos, but when I get a good bright day, I'll do better. Everything is from a 1977 vintage SP1 Colt AR-15 (except 3 prong and early stock) on a JD machine T-1 lower.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/02/AR1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/02/AR2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/02/AR3-1.jpg

Nice. How hard is it to locate the adapter in the pivot pin hole?

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Originally Posted by Roscoe Snyder

Nice. How hard is it to locate the adapter in the pivot pin hole?

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Fulton Armory has them for about $2. WELL worth it I line it up, then put a couple drops of super glue to hold it in the correct place in the large hole. Never moves.

The pamphlet from 1970 was contracted by Colt. The contract number reveals many items purchased in addition to the pamphlet. I still have to find the original packaging of the earlier version. I always thought it was the Government Printing Office that printed them. Then I started researching contracts. What a surprise.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pamphlet-1.jpg

Love the comic book manual. Will Eisner, MAD magazines cartoonist was contracted to do the art work since MAD was popular with the troops. I have a PDF file of it, also. (Mine is an original, I had two, but gave one to my son when I gave him the shorty retro I built.)

A little more info on the comic book manual: The comic book manual was in response to problems arising from the fact M16s were not being maintained because initially they thought you didn't need to clean them. When they isolated the troubles and developed cleaning kits, they wanted a new cleaning manual that all the troops would willingly read. The artist for the new manual was Will Eisner , the lead cartoonist and humorist for Mad Magazine. In the 60s and 70s, it was a adolescent/adult comic book/magazine full of satire, parody, and dark humor and commentary on politics and society. Believe me, I never missed an issue that came out in the 60s and 70s! It was HUGELY popular.

Bill, I always thought it was a GPO printing, also.

Here's a link where you can download a .pdf of the M16 comic book manual.
This is a high resolution scan (7.44MB) so it may take a little bit to load depending on your internet service provider connection speed, so give it time to open.

http://ia700409.us.archive.org/6/ite...anceManual.pdf

I hope I'm not being too much of a pedant by pointing out that Will Eisner never worked for MAD but is best known as the creator of The Spirit. He pioneered the use of comics as an educational medium while in the Army in WW2 in the publication Army Motors. He was with PS Magazine from its start in 1951 and I'd guess that a lot of the material in the DA PAM had already appeared there.

Thats an nice one, Bernhardt!

RE: Comic Issue.

Tom in NJ has the earlier issue from 1969. I have it too, but not with a contract wrapper. Tom has the contract number. I am going to research the contract because his is marked Government Printing Office (GPO).

Before searching his contract I am going to speculate that the GPO printed a limited number and copies were sent out on bid for reprint.

Will know after my search if that is true.

This comic is a reprint from one of the PS Magazine Issues , June of 1968, if I recall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe Snyder

I hope I'm not being too much of a pedant by pointing out that Will Eisner never worked for MAD but is best known as the creator of The Spirit. He pioneered the use of comics as an educational medium while in the Army in WW2 in the publication Army Motors. He was with PS Magazine from its start in 1951 and I'd guess that a lot of the material in the DA PAM had already appeared there.

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Must be a senior moment. I knew I had seen him before. Must have been spirit. Her's and interesting link: Will Eisner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think my issue I have is a 1969. Very heavy paper.

Will Elder was the artist for Mad comic books,... not Will Eisner. Not only are their names similar, but their artwork and signatures are too. Fooled me for a while!...

Actually Will Eisner did more than art work in PS Magazine. He also wrote several articles. There is an individual that recently published a book on Mr. Eisner's lifetime of military and commercial artwork.

Speaking of PS Magazine, it is something I love. I have two complete sets and am now selling of my third which is missing about 15-20 issues. When I say complete, my definition is from 1951 to mid 1974 (Actually my first set is complete up to circa 2008). By the 1980's the magazine's quality of paper and color went down hill and most of what was covered one could not own. Thus I have no interest in the later publications.

That rifle will go well with your Retro carbine. I still think you should use a Nodak Spud NDS-16A1 lower receiver and use the lower that your son gave you for another AR build. I am almost finished with my 604 clone and will try to post pics later.

Will Eisner is 94 today. The Google homepage has a nice little tribute.

I do not know where you got that information, but Mr. Eisner died several years ago.

So he did, but it was still his birthday.

Went to the range finally to shoot the SP1 clone (and some others). Last chance before I leave for vacation, so drove the 30 minutes to the Como, MS rifle range, despite the lousy weather.

Pouring rain, fog, and high wind. 100 and 200 yards were out of the question, as I couldn't even see the 100! I did, however, battlesight the SP1 at 25 yards (I use the 1970s vintage 25 yard battlesight target. Impact about 1.2 inch below POA at 25 for 200 yard POI/POA). It it started about an inch too low and an inch to the right with the first 5 shot group. A few adjustments and had it dialed in perfect with the second 5 shots. Despite the crummy weather, rain on the glasses, and wind, I got a 5 shot group with iron sights that you could cover with a dime! I was using Israeli military M193 ball.

No pictures because of the rain.

VERY SWEET! No FTFs, FTEs, or gremlins of any kind. I really like the Israeli M193. Very consistent.

very nice rifle ,

if you dont mind my asking , why did you fit the sling that way ?

i did one of these -

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles026-1.jpg

Because I had it on the XM177E2 I gave my son before, and you put the snap buckle end on the stock instead of the front loop.

Also, shot about 1500 rounds through it in a 4 hour period at the Watermelon shoot in the desert. ZERO malfunctions. VERY SWEET. I really miss my XM177E2 I gave my son, and think I may sell the slick side upper and butt stock assembly and turn it into a shorty!

Well, I wouldn't...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0381-1.jpg

I'd forgotten how much I like the old version, but you and A square 10's inputs inspired me to shoot mine yesterday (15 April 2011). Slickest action of any AR I've ever used, light, well balanced, and a joy to shoot. Getting hard to see the front sight, but that's fixable (and operator induced- just need new glasses).

For such a light rifle , it still shoots well from the standing position- not that i'm any sort of David Tubb or anything close to it!

Nice build! Is it an original Colt SP1, or is a SP1 "slickside" upper on a different receiver like mine?. Mine is 100% SP1 Colt AR-15 on a stripped JD Machine receiver.

Colt SP 1 with a neutered (I didn't do it) early M16 chromed carrier and bolt w/o the fwd assist ratchets, an aftermarket forward pivot pin (I hate the screw thing), M16 buttstock, and a skinny 3-prong flash hider.

(Also an "old" Armalite 2 stage FCG.)

Barrel is old chrome chamber w/o chrome bore type. (Colt)

Stupidly enough, this fairly used SP1 has found favor over a few "nicer" SP1s over the years. This one's just nice and slick.

Oddly the above is the only photo I have of this rifle, and the light was low early in the morning, so it doesn't show much detail, sorry!

I was visiting my best friend in Elko NV. He is a fellow firepower lover, so today we made a trip into the desert to make some smoke and fire with the long-guns. He had his mini-14, and I had my retro 604 and a VZ58. The retro has not been cleaned since it shot the 1,500 rounds fired in the Kalifornia desert watermelon 2 weeks ago. (or since the several hundred rounds fired before the trip sighting it in). Did about 300 rounds more today. (WOuld have shot more, but ran out of ammo!). It preformed flawlessly! ZERO failures of any kind.

The ammo used was IMI M-193 ball, and the magazines were Israeli Orlite 30s. Upper: late 70s Colt SP1 1/12" C MP with offset bushing.(everything but stripped lower SP1 Colt) Sights: IRON OF COURSE!!!!! We were using the truck bed for a casual rest, and we were hitting pop cans and PIECES of clay pigeons at 150+ yards with every shot. I actually got a can at about 200 yards with the iron sights. My buddy ditched the mini and started shooting the AR. He shot it almost as well as me. (It was battle sighted 1.5 inch below POA at 25 yards). Hold was a 6 o'clock hold on the pigeon at 150. This is the most accurate AR I have ever fired. I had contemplated selling the slick side upper and using the $$$ to switch it to a retro XM177E2 build, but I am not going to touch a thing! The retro will have to wait until afford to build another upper.

I'm in the second pic with the Cammy NRA hat.

jmoore , i too have issues with the eyes and the front sight these days , back in the late 60s i had better sight and they worked better , today i use the scope to compensate and allow me to enjoy my shooting , i recommend it as an acknowledgment to our current state of 'experience vs time'

gotta recognize your limitations to overcome them , just me still enjoying life

Last outing wasn't hideous, especially considering that I haven't had the opporunities to shoot as much in the last year. (Work or dramas)

Zero seems OK (set at ~250yds), but the operator needs help! (Low left shot was called- gotta quit pulling the trigger when I KNOW the shot will be bad...)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uff03911-1.jpg
:)

at least your getting out to the range , ive yet to set foot on it since the first of the year , need to not work , load up and go shoot , then feel better and smile , soon i hope

Very nice. I would like to have one to extend my US weapons collection. Nice job.

I went a couple steps further on my retro: I got a Nodak Spud slab-side 601/602 lower, M16A1 Upper with Forward assist, and an original early 603 hard chrome M16 Bolt carrier group. The slickside upper and JD Machine lower will come to life as a GAU-5/AA Air Force Commando.

I'll try photos tomorrow. Uploader not working.

Thats a nice one! Fine equipment.

It can shoot as good as it looks!

I went to the Como MS range today with my son-in-law to re-sight the 603 (since I put a FA upper on it), and sight in the Kel-Tec SU-16CA I just got, Well, as usual, the weathermen in Mississippi LIE! At 7:30 the radar showed clear, and the hourly for Como was for clear until noon or 1PM. At 7:45 I drove the 50 minutes from Southaven to the range to beat the crowd and the rain... In true NW Mississippi style, it was pouring rain when we got there! It seems the storm front in LA and AR turned 90 degrees and headed east suddenly. We decided to hang around, and try shooting when there were gaps of drizzle in the storm.

With very minor adjustments, got the 603 (POI 1.25" below POA dialed in on a 25 yard sight in target). It was very windy and drizzling, so the groups at 25 were a little larger than when the barrel was on the slick-side upper. Average was about 3/4". Ammo is Israeli M-193 ball. The targets and cardboard were getting soggy and blowing off, so instead of shoot paper at 100, we started shooting at a rock about twice the size of a softball at 200 yards. Both my son-in-law and I hit it with about every shot. Not to bad considering my glasses were fogging and the sights were wet. I wanted to take pictures, but that would have been a foggy waste.

The Kel-Tec was a big surprise, though. It shot as well as the 603 clone. I had an SU-16B model about 5 years ago and liked it, but the barrel was too light for me. I traded it when I left Kalifornia for the land of the REAL weapons. This new CA model is an improvement. The barrel is heavier than an AR pencil barrel now, and the bore and chamber are chrome lined like an AR. The muzzle is threaded 1/2"x28 to take AR FH and brakes. AT under 6 pounds, it is handy like a 5.56mm M1 Carbine, and I can use my legal pre-ban high-cap mags in it when I take it into Kalifornia. It takes M16 mags, and even holds a spare 30 rounder in the stock. It also folds in half for a compact backpack weapon.

Very nice setup!

agreed all nice setups , im still toying with replaceing my modern DPMS lower for a nice NODAK SPUD