Congress is looking into allowing these weapons in, after all. Keep your fingers crossed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upMTABpHL4
They didn't say anything about the carbines.
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Congress is looking into allowing these weapons in, after all. Keep your fingers crossed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upMTABpHL4
They didn't say anything about the carbines.
Thanks for posting this
If those Korean rifles ever get into the United States, don't expect much. Back in the 1980s, most of the South Korean derived M1 Garand rifles were sandblasted, multiple re-parked low grade garbage. Unless somebody reliable from the tentative buyer's side has directly surveyed the rifles and documented the things, what the Korean businessmen say is usually unreliable. Just when you think that something is nailed down . . . it all changes.
Another factor is . . . trying to strike a high dollar deal like that with Koreans and have them live up to the terms is a pipe dream. They're known to be routinely unscrupulous!
Asked my brother-in-law who is a resident living in Seoul, South Korea to see if he could find some info on the M1 Garand rifles andsale to people in the United States. Aside from a couple of news stories not much else is generally known about this on that side. As it turned out, my wife's brother was highly reluctant to make any inquiries about surplus military firearms. He feared being arrested and put in jail just for asking! We forget over here that South Korea though an ally is in fact a polite dictatorship and police state. They are still in a state of war with North Korea.
As the next oldest male, though an American and married in, I am still considered as second head of the family in Korea. Will be going to Seoul this fall to a wedding and will prowl around to see what can be learned. If I'm not put into prison or executed, will try to let you know.
The State Dept. is the issue. Hillary is not letting any guns into the USA, fact is, she was largely responsible for the M14 inventory going to the Baltic States. Koreans want to buy a US made anti-missle defense system. The money is not going into any politicians pockets. Interesting story, for sure.
If this was fine art work they would let it in but as long as the leaders are anti gun they will never let it happen. Lets hope they still are around after 2012. As a side ,I know having more Garands on the market may lower the values of the ones we already have but I am one to save as many as I can in the short time I have left and pass this passion on to the next generation. Plus I'm sure the upper Collectors grade Garandswill suffer not as the Koreans are probably in fair shape at best? Just my 2cents (worth -3cents now)
If the past is any guide, the junk will get hurt by more M1s in the market, but nice stuff will hold and then increase. That's what happened when the Police Sales began back in the day. More guns attracts more people, some of whom become collectors and later want to upgrade. When CMP dropped the "one in a lifetime" rule, many collectors thought that would kill the value of their collections -- um, that didn't quite happen, did it? :)
I was thinking about the CMP's one a lifetime rule this morning when my new catalog showed up. Now dealers at shows can get a ton of 495.00 M1's and sell them for 800 or so at every show. Well the ones I have been to in NC have been that case.
I agree , I think the Korean M1's will be junk or "not very nice" so the nice collector M1's will hold the value but if you have a non correct shooter im sure it will hurt the price of it.
Actually these Korean Garands are what the Dr. ordered. They will need new barrels, new wood, and lots of tinkering. None are up and running and the parts guys will be delighted. They are not a problem for the CMP and I doubt the Orest is losing any sleep over these things.
The ones I saw at the show were junk for $800. HRA's with a 10 muzzle, no lie I dropped my CMP muzzle gauge in and then shook it around after it bottomed out. I was considering a enfield 303 but when the M1 gauged junk I figured the Enfield was junk as well. the gauge fell all the way on that one too. I could put one of my Garands in the local paper for $875 and in 1 hour it would be sold. I've seen only one advertised in the 25+ years I have lived here and it went like that and was nothing special if you know what I mean(SG) at best. Minus $50 for the add. Sell 3 and take the money and buy four more CMP. You see it just goes to support this affliction.........GARAND-ITTIS
The State Department is not the problem. I've worked with them getting retransfer authorizations in the past and they are courteous and fairly quick about it. They had already issued the retransfer authorization for both the Garands and Carbines with the stipulation that they be imported over time and not all at once which would dessimate the market, (some common sense IMHO). BATFE put a stop to it. I was at the FAIR trade group, (import watchdog organization), meeting at SHOT in January and the Deputy Director of the BATFE told us that they were worried about the Carbines winding up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels. You know, evil magazine fed semi-automatic rifles. We all knew it was a load of crap since cartels most likely get real full-auto military weapons from Venezuela and Nicaragua but I suppose he had to tell us something. I hope Congress can straighten it all out but I won't hold my breath. To counter some of the comments here, (no offense), I had a 1944 M1 rifle that came in via Arlington Ordnance in the 1980's that was one of the most original rifles I've ever had. It was in nice shape too and the only thing it needed to make it complete and collector grade was a properly marked buttstock. There's always gold in these shipments so lets hope they do manage to come back home where they belong.
I'll second that , bring them home.
Cali Steve and Brian hit the nail on the head.
I would consider most of these to be "fixer uppers" which translate well into the parts market. If the price is right, these would be great "entry level" guns for beginning collectors/ shooters. :madsmile: I also think that there will be some gold in the shipments.:thup:
What I hear from people, is the complaint that "good parts" which could be used to restore desirable rifles are used to fix these up instead...
LOL! And sorry, while having "big hopes", my budget is rather small... I would welcome some "cheap" M1's that I wouldn't be afraid to use for fear of loosing collector value! :) JMHO!
I had two of the the late 1980s Korean import Garands. I only bought the ones with original finish and stayed away from the slate gray sand blasted ones.
The best one I purchased had its original Nov 1943 barrel and lockbar sights. I was in the Army at the time and in uniform. The store owner let me go through about 25 guns, switch parts and build the rifle as correctly as I could for Nov 1943. $217 out the door.
I only sold it after I started buying non-import marked CMP guns.
Update- I spoke with a dealer-buddy. He was at the Shot Show and agrees that ATF has stopped their import. He says State Dept. has agreed to a limited import license and forwarded it off to ATF. They will not allow importation as ATF has concluded they will all go to Mexico for use by Drug Lords. There is sits.
There's allot of mythology flying around in the rumor mill as always. State Department has nothing to do with import licenses. They only issue the retransfer authorizations that are necessary for any U.S, military curio and relic firearm that's to be submitted on a BATFE Form 6 import permit application for approval. Their job is to check and see if the weapons were supplied as part of a MAP, (military assistance program), or purchased outright using national funds from an allied nation. I'm actually in the process of trying to import a collection from Canada for an heir in Illinois that has an original Carbine that was picked up by his deceased father, ( a Canadian Army officer), while in Holland during WWII. I'll keep you posted on whether it's successful. The retransfer will be here tomorrow and then I have to submit the Form 6 to BATF&E for approval. Fingers crossed. I was also told that the Garand import from Korea was still up in the air. The large Carbine import from Korea is null and void at this point. Apparently small imports weren't supposed to be affected by all of this but BATFE Imports Branch have been disapproving all Carbine imports, large and small. It's that evil clip fed semi-automatic weapon thing again. Time will tell.
BATF should know that .30 carbine ammo is in low supply, and expensive. I would think the drug lords would want to equip their armies with rifles that they can readily get ammo for. JMT.....Frank
Again second hand info here, but this is what I was told- ATF has not been denying import permit applications. They sit on them for a period of time and then return them via mail with no action taken. Not denied, not approved, nothing done with the import permit application. Very difficult to get anything done.
No offense Steve to you or whoever is telling you that but it's simply not true. A Form 6 has five boxes and one has to be checked before it's returned. Download one from the ATF website and you'll see what I'm talking about. Action is always taken one way or the other. I got my retransfer authorization today from the Office of Regional Security and Arms Transfers, Bureau of Political and Military Affairs, U.S. Dept. of State for the "one off" Carbine in Canada. I'll be submitting the Form 6 by week's end along with the State Department letter and we'll see what happens. BATFE Imports Branch usually have my Form 6's back inside of a month. The examiners there are actually quite good and work well with me. Stay tuned.
In light of recent events, I can't imagine the Washington political machine approving the import of any number of firearms. And, particularly military surplus firearms. The Carbines are a dead fish I think because of the ease of conversion to full auto. The BATF must surely be aware of this situation. The M1's are a little more likely but only marginally so, in the best of times. This isn't the best of times by any stretch of the imagination.
Figure at least two years to change the administration even if the conservatives can win. With the recent actions of the conservative state legislatures, this is by no means as likely as it was in November.
I will apologize in advance if this violates the "politics" restriction on this board, but this IS a political matter. Either we face that fact or quit discussing the re-importation of these old firearms. Again, my apologies.
Brian-all second hand stuff. I don't import so really have no first hand experience. I wish you well with the import.
Ok folks, can we just drop this subject for now .... :thdown:
It's been beat to death so many ways in other similar threads , I've lost count .... :lol:
Korean Carbines and Garands?
Any chance korean carbines
Non-political question about proposed sale of Korean M1s
Korean Carbines and Garands?
There are enough other gun sites on the Internet with publicly accessible forums (you don't have to even register) which are about politics, Obama, Muslims, immigration, ugly looking women democrats and other silly nonsense, overwhelmed with posts from folks sharing their frustrations in the same sandbox. That stuff can spread like wildfire and destroy the unity and purpose of a site very quickly, so I simply don't want to see it get any kind of foothold here.
Thanks guys... appreciate keeping the focus on collecting old milsurps and away from politics and religion. :cheers:
Regards,
Doug
The hold-up is simple: CMP says they are MAP and therefore ours, the Koreans say these are guns they bought. No serial lists of MAP guns, so the dispute goes on.
---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------
Sorry, Badger, didn't see your request to drop the subject :(
No problem Bob ... :beerchug:Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
The only reason that this topic survives at all on our collector oriented site, is the fact that the content does have a some specific interest and orientation to Garands (an old milsurp), so the moderators tend to let all of them run until they begin to degrade into political rhetoric, anger and frustration, which I can personally relate to living in Canada with our own draconian gun laws. ;)
Regards,
Doug
I was "fortunate" enough to actually SEE the Korean Garands and Carbines back in the late 1990's in company with a well known and now retired CANADIAN importer of such things.
What none of you have taken into consideration conditionwise is that there are 5 to 6 K CANNED GARANDS and probably 7 to 8 K M1 Carbines ALSO in"cans",We photographed them at the time and I forwarded photos to"BODYMAN" a few years ago and asked him to post them "nonymousely" which he did ; just for schitts and grins.
What almost brought me to TEARS was seeing the MINT/NEW M1C's and D's and WWII Military Shotguns like mdl 97's and Mdl 12's etc that they HAD CUT UP.Smashed the glass and just threw the detritus into open top crates.They ALSO parted out thousands of rifles and also just threw the parts into crates as well.
Worse yet the retired Colonel who was the"designated hitter" with the"IN" with the relevant Generals wanted HIS 15pct up front i.e., BEFORE you were allowed to put in your offer.
This is the same guy who screwed all and sundry re the Korean AMMO fiasco where they "declipped" a few zillion rds and poured them LOOSE into crates sans bandoliers etc and ammo cans after they SOLD the stuff as being IN CLIPS/BANDOLIERS AND CANS.Trust the Kimchees to do the dirty in EVERY business deal concerning surplus too.
They DO HAVE those "CANNED" rifles and carbines and if Bob Seijas were to ask Jeff to repost the 1990's photos taken at the Korean Ordnance Depot again; you'll see what I mean.Of course you can EXPECT the CMP to cry a river about how those ARE THEIR RIFLES and get all bitter and twisted too.
Most of you in Canada have already SEEN and perhaps BOUGHT the odd"CANNED" M1 already.Do any of you recall the MINT Danish NAVY Garands that Alan Lever had for sale in August 1998 ?The ones with the little Danish Navy ANCHOR and inventory number on the rear sight covers I mean? THOSE WERE "CANNED" Garands right out of the drums and never issued.All were Post WWII Springfield Armory and Raritan Arsenal REBUILDS of course but the rebuild spec was"SHALL BE INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM NEW" and they WERE.I KNOW because I am sitting here typing this looking at TEN of them in the front row of my safe.
Don't expect to see ANY of them either. ESPECIALLY in the hands of the CMP who would attempt to "AUCTION" them all off for stupid money in their inimitable way.Watching them selling to DEALERS really made them drop in my esteem.
The are LOTS of really nice rifles in Korea to be sure but they will be the very LAST ONES sold,trust me on that one Sportsfans.JR
The CMP's rule of one rifle a lifetime really was nice not to have dealers selling 900.00 or 1,000 dollar M1's they get from the CMP at 600.00 like they do now. Oh well.
JR you really sound like your talking from years of experiance. You talk , I listen.
There are a few dealers out there who still abide by the original DCM/CMP rule. I happen to be one of them.
You mean these?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0Garands-1.jpg
"The CMP's rule of one rifle a lifetime really was nice not to have dealers selling 900.00 or 1,000 dollar M1's they get from the CMP at 600.00 like they do now. Oh well. " Actually the "CMP's rule" was in fact the DCM's rule. I THINK the US Army determined that rule and then allowed 1200 rifles to be shipped per year. It took me 5 years to get my Garand. My DCM Garand came from Rock Island, not Anniston. Of course no dealer got anything in thoses days. Everything is different today.
Bodyman, did they pack other arms like that? If I found one or more(just one of those recurring dreams I have) cans and opened them and had Thompsons and Bars, well thats how the dream becomes a nightmare, and I end up with a lot of freshly dug holes in my back yard.
According to a Scott Duff book they canned M2 .50's , M1911's , Carbines , BAR's , garands , etc like that.
What you see is the "redacted" photo with the Korean Military folks removed and the "cans" centred.You have the Garands in the foreground and Carbines to the rear.
Date on the front drum was March of 1948 at Raritan Arsenal.NO RECORD of the Serial Numbers on the drums at all.
I like that"dotted line" at the top of the drum all it needed was a picture of scissors and a "CUT HERE" directive.
There were more unopened drums to the rear of these two as well.
Mind you,I have seen 'white bagged' Garands elsewhere in South East Asia that had a slit cut to check the Serial number and since the rifle was packed with a canvas web sling mounted it wicked in the prevalent moisture.I opened the white bag and removed the rifle to find a 1/71 RRAD rebuild in a brand new set of Overton Iodine Red birch furniture and the WHOLE RIFLE was TOTALLY RED from muzzle to buttplate with the VCI tube down the bore.It was just that fine surface rust and the rifle could no doubt be saved BUT I still wanted to weep !
Who knows what you will find when you open those drums ?? Denmark is one thing, BUT Korea is a whole nother story !!
Nice to dream though;isn't it ? Thankfully I got my share in 1998 and they are JUST BEEYOOTEEFULL too !
Cheers,
JR
Click on the item below !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodyman
I am sure many could say something about Hillary but that would be political and a moderator would be upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
Oh well Elections next year in the US...is that political?
This has been a very good and informative thread. If any mention of topics relating to the Pword enhanced the subject I was informed not offended. I feel,just my opinion, that as long as it pertains to the subject and is not done with malice, you know people don't be mean spirited,then I don't see a problem but will keep to the rules I agreed to when I signed on to this great site, and steer clear of such comments. Does this make any sense?? Just my 2 cents.
Just one thing. The State Dept. has, indeed, signed off to the deal. It is none other then ATF that has the deal stopped. They insist the guns are all headed to the Mexican/US border. Just a final point.
Thanks Steve. I'm going to talk to my representative and see if that will get me anywhere. Maybe if enough of us do this we can make the difference. It doesn't hurt to try. But as you implied Steve it's probably out of his hands.
Here's an update as promised. The "one-off" Underwood Carbine I mentioned a while back with the State Department retransfer authorization I submitted with other estate firearms for import from Canada has been approved for import by BATF&E Imports Branch. My examiner told me that it did go to a "higher authority" because of the Carbine for further scrutiny but was approved anyhow. It IS possible to import curio and relic U.S. military weapons once State Department approval is obtained. At least it is this week! I hope this dispells the rumor mill a bit. ATB, Brian