Vans instant gun blue?

Hey all, I usually hang out in other areas on here but I had a question about Vans instant gun blue. First I will tell you what I do know about it. My buddy picked some up at a gun show recently. I usually don't buy into "miracle products" that folks are peddling at shows because sometimes they are equivalent to snake oil salesmen. We busted this stuff out and I used it on an old commercial Model 11. Astonished doesn't even put it into perspective. The product is clear. I put it on a bare metal "zero finish left" magazine tube and after a little patience the bluing came out of the metal. My question for those of you who are experienced with this is this: does the finish have any kind of durability or is it basically just aesthetics? This seems like an ethical way to breathe life into some old guns without hurting the value since it is only pulling the guns own bluing out of the metal and not applying a new coat. Thoughts?

A worn collectible gun is still worth more than one touched up with cold blue. Cold blue is really the kiss of death on highly collectible guns that are seldom found in nice condition.

I have used Van's Gun Blue for years and consider it a pretty good product. It seems to work best on low carbon steel and a good bead blast will certainly enhance the final result and durability. Several years ago, I refinished an Enfield revolver that someone had written their social security number on the barrel flat with an electropencil. Thus far, the revolver has been carried in a belt holster on three backpacking trips and is only now losing some finish on the tip of the barrel and the front of the cylinder. I also refinished a put together M/1911A1 for a friend and the final result was not only very handsome but also bore a strong resemblance to a military style refinish. So. long and short of it all, it does a pretty good job of refinishing an old gun not worth the expense of a hot blue or parkerizing job performed by a competent gunsmith.

Does it actually say "pulling the guns own bluing out of the metal"? That is pretty much impossible since the original bluing was a surface treatment and once gone is gone for good, whether rust blue (the longest lasting) or chemical bluing done in tanks. Cold blues are, as Johnny Peppers said, "the kiss of death" for collectible guns, they are not bringing anything out of the metal, just applying a not so long lasting temporary finish finish in place of an original finish that is gone for ever.

Use cold blues for touch up on small spots where the original finish has been scrapped off, other than that it will simply down grade the condition calling into question the gun's originality in the same manner that a stock refinish does. Sorry, those are the facts.

I did some more reading and experimenting with this stuff. No, it doesn't say that it pulls the blueing out of the metal, that is just how it was described to me. How it works is still a bit of a mystery to me. I wouldn't go as far as to call this stuff "cold blue" either though as it is not like any cold blue I've seen. It is a clear chemical with absolutely no pigmentation to it. I don't use it on my military firearms but I have used it on several old commercial guns. I will say that thus far it is everything it says it is. I like it because it doesn't make an old gun look brand new and glossy. It simply fills in the places where the blue is worn and strangely enough, if the the finnish is dull and faded, that's what you get. It always matches up perfectly with whatever is on the gun. My opinion in the end is that if you have something that needs touched up, or you want to help preserve grandpa's old Remington Model 10 without losing the aged look of the gun, then this stuff is a winner. You will have to wrestle with your own conscience as far as choosing to use it on a military or otherwise collectable gun though.

The color of the cold blue solution has nothing to do with the color it turns the firearm. The cold blue process is basically an oxidation of the surface, turning it a somewhat blue color.

Really no conscience wrestling on a collectible firearm. The only thing that keeps cold blue from being at the top of the list of collectible no-no's is chrome plating, but if you like it go for it.

Nhetzer, I agree with your remarks entirely. Van's Instant Gun Blue is good stuff for the casual shooter/shadetree gunsmith needing to touch up an old firearm not worth the price of a gunsmith quality hot blue job, competent or otherwise. Why is it a major sin among the shooting fraternity to touch up an old Marlin Model 60 not worth the expense of a trip to the local gunsmith? I'll never understand it, especially when we are talking about dirt common guns that'll never have one lick of collector value now or in the future. Judging by remarks, it would seem that touch up bluing on an old gun is tantamount to calling the virtue of a fellow's mama into question. It's one of those subjects you can always count on to raise the ire and righteous indignation of some portion of the shooting fraternity. As is noted, it is a crime against humanity to use the stuff on a highly collectible gun in decent condition, but ya know, in the long run, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Some people out there will completely reblue a worn, mismatched but otherwise collectible Luger in a heartbeat. To that guy, it is not a collectible grade gun but merely a 'shooter grade gun'. Guess it all depends on what is the definition of the word 'collectible'-- a very nebulous term, subjective at best, wherever it is tossed about. No matter what you hanker to collect in the way of firearms, there will always be 'bottom feeder' quality examples of any give firearm which someone will feel inclined to wanna clean up for personal use. I'm not entirely certain anything is ever lost to posterity by such an action, except the money the owner has just thrown down a rathole and will never recover should he ever sell the gun in future. Whether you approve of his action or not, the firearm in question is still that individual's property and no one else's. You can encourage an individual not to reblue that old mismatched Luger, but in the scheme of things it's their property that they paid for and therefore have the right to do with as they will. You may not like a guy who junks up his yard by filling it with old truck tires but zoning laws aside, it is his business what he does with his possessions whether you are in complete accord with his actions or not.

Would I do my damnedest to dissuade a fellow from rebluing a collectible gun best just left alone in its present condition? Yep, I would and have done so numerous times in the past. Would I try to stop a shooter from cleaning up a rust pitted mismatched gun totally devoid of finish and worth only the sum of its parts to be sold on eBay? Nope, probably wouldn't.

Highly collectible doesn't include the Marlin Model 60, and the Model 60 is the ideal rifle to practice using cold blue on. And, I could care less what someone does with their own property, but I also don't want anyone to be misled into thinking touching up that old Cavalry model SAA with cold blue is just the thing to do just because someone else is enamoured with it's magical properties of drawing the original blue back out.

Well said and sage advice, Johnny Peppers!

Cheers

Barbarossa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nhetzer

This seems like an ethical way to breathe life into some old guns without hurting the value since it is only pulling the guns own bluing out of the metal and not applying a new coat.

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This is a complete mix of concepts that need to be taken separately. It is easiest from back to front. Here goes:

"not applying a new coat". Already noted, not true. Cold bluing does alter a very thin surface layer.

"only pulling the guns own bluing out of the metal". Already noted, a nonsense phrase worthy of a snake-oil salesman.

"without hurting the value". Already noted, it certainly does hurt the value of collectable items. It is falsification.

"way to breathe life into some old guns". I strongly disagree. A "live" gun is one that can and does shoot. Whether or not and how well does not depend on the surface finish.

"ethical". Ethics hardly come into it, except for interactions with other people and their values. It is, for instance, definitely unethical is to falsify any artefact with the intent of gaining an advantage over others. Which is what tends to happen when the "improved" items are sold on.

Just my 2 cents/pence/groats (take your pick) worth.
:wave:

Thanks all for your input. I agree with some and disagree with others. I have decided that I do like this product but it has its place. I'm not a gun dealer and don't indulge in the practice of deceiving people when I do sell one of my firearms so I'm not concerned about what applications I will use this product for. When I started this thread I knew absolutely nothing about cold blue because I have never used it. As for the claims of "pulling the old blue out of the metal" I was simply paraphrasing the claims of someone I know who bought it and the explanation he gave me. I wasn't there for the sales pitch he got so I don't know if it was explained to him that way or if he just made his own assumptions. Either way, no matter. I decided to come here and find out the skinny. Thanks again all.

You are absolutely correct that everyone can do what they want to their own guns, and that is the way it should be. I believe the warnings were issued for those that don't have the knowledge of the product that you do, and could possibly end up with results that did not meet their expectations.

the only cold blue that actually can be used to refinish/restore a gun is oxpho blue. I use it all the time in cases where there is excess welding like a torch cut gun kit. if you want to be a purist go ahead but you gun will look like crap if you park a gun that has welds. no matter what you do even if the welds are not visible to the eye they will be after parking.

I use oxpho blue and it works great. I just restored a bren for someone with it.

I find it even gives the colour of park a bit, its not your average cold blue.

some before and afters

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...32665032-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...32665037-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...32665042-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...33277558-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...33277558-1.jpg

A BAR I did with it

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...35358615-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...35358609-1.jpg

and a very rough Inglis HP, before and afters, notice the serial number in the white now

http://www.pbase.com/mrclark/image/56901212.JPG

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...56901088-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...68582599-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...68531302-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...68583380-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...68525321-1.jpg

so depending on your situation, I wouldnt say bluing a gun allways depreciates the value, it has its values and depends why and how you use it as well as the brand you use.

hope this helps

most cold blues on the market are a copper based product.
if you ever want to have refinished correctly...avoid using cold blues, they are ok for small touch up on a gun your going to sell,
i learned a hard lesson on a cold blue finish rifle, even after chem stripping after 10 mins in my blue tank it destroyed 60.00 worth of blue salts, and a days work...
never again, unless they want to pay extra money to change my tank...copper sulfate doesnt mix well with sodium hydroxide...

There use to be a '62 Chevy around town finished with blue metallic Krylon. Looked pretty good as the overspray of the metallic gave it an iridescent color depending on how the light hit it.