M1 Rifle Short Stroking

Hello. I'm experiencing short stroking with handloads through my M1. I had been trying between 45.5 and 48.0 grains of IMR4064 and Varget with 168 grain A-Maxes in LC Match brass set off by CCI #34 primers seated to 3.240" COAL.

The supplier of the M1 sent me a different Op rod and gas cylinder, which made no difference. I then bought some Greek HXP mil surp ammo, which ran fine. Since it runs with mil surp, he says the problem is my handloads.......not the rifle.

As the Greek is loaded with 52 grains of ball powder (which I presume to be faster than IMR4064), I bought a pound of H4895 and used between 45.5 and 47 grains with the above mentioned details with the same short stroking.

For today's test session, I switched to 150 grain Sierra GameKings and loaded 8 each with 47.0, 47.5 and 48.0 grains of H4895 (with the above details). I experienced multiple short strokes with the 47.0 and 47.5 grain loads, but made it through the clip with 48.0 grains. Thinking it didn't like 168 grain bullets (no reason I know if it shouldn't), I also tried 49.5 grains of the Greek powder with 168s (and the above details) with success.

I'll load up some more of the 48 grains of H4895 driving 150s for the next range session, but won't be surprised if I don't make it through two clips.

Am I wrong in thinking that all of the above loads should work 100% in my rifle? Should I try a slightly faster powder than H4895? Should I go back to the seller again, as it's under warranty?

I appreciate any advice you're able to provide.

Yes, you are wrong in thinking anything is going to work guaranteed. Factory will but that's it. It's not the manufacturers fault if reloads don't cycle. We have a whole thread here that will explain which loads work better than others and maybe an adjustable gas regulator too. Go to the top of this and search this thread, it will answer all. By the way, cartridges of the world states 50 grains of IMR 4895 is the military equivalent. That's what I use but I think I'll reduce it to 48 gr next time.

I'll rephrase the previous statement.

Am I wrong in thinking that at least one (or likely more) of the mentioned loads would work with only an occasional failure to function?

I've read through every M1 handloading thread on this forum I could find, and don't recalling seeing the one mentioned.

All of the loads I've tried have been recommended in multiple threads, and confirmed to be appropriate in the Garand section of my Hornady loading manual.

Grizz, you will probably have to experiment with several powders and somewhat increasing loads(within safety spec) until you find the load your rifle will like. It will only be a grain or two. Really. I have three of them in varying condition and they all eat whatever I use. Well, I did have some LC ball 1973 issue not cycle but I blame the age of the ammo for that. You never know where surplus has been stored. I went to M1 forum and typed in Loads for M1 and several pages came up. One speaks specificly about H4895 and IMR 4895 and there's lots of other info in that area. I'm sure you can find SOMETHING there that can help...

I'd try some M2 ball ammo first, before doing anything else. USGI (late 1960's stuff is usually a bit downloaded, though), or equivalent.

I bought a McCann gas regulator and tried it with 51 to 53 grains of H4350. Even with the smallest gas venting aperture, I got the same results as before. I fired a few rounds of the 51 grain load with stock gas cylinder screw, and it cycled them fine (brass was flying to approx 12:30 to 1:00.

I then bought some H414, and loaded up some test rounds with between 50 and 52.5 grains. It fed every time with all the loads, and the brass was going to between 1:00 (most between 1:30 and 2:00) and 2:30, which is more appropriate.

I've loaded up some loads between 52 and 53.5 grains for accuracy evaluation this weekend. Every other powder I've tried gives nice groups, so I'll likely have my load soon.

If I get bored, I may try a slightly faster powder, but the op rod velocity seems fine as it is.

Edited to add:

Do not try H414 or H4350 in a properly running M1. Just because it's proper in mine doesn't make it proper in yours.

Grizz

Interesting issue. I run 40gr of 4895 with a 150gr gas-checked slug at .308 to .310 (quite tight but accurate, about to quit sizing at .308 actually) and have no trouble with the rifle cycling at all. The only thing that comes to my mind (and surely this has been checked) is if the op-rod is in contact with the wood along the bottom edge of the rod. Casting a guess of course.

I just pulled the action out of the stock and noticed that the op rod is beginning to show light wear in the area of the sling swivel band (whatever that part's called) and the rear edge of the band has part of the park removed.

I removed enough of the band material to eliminate the contact (tested by applying a light coat of grease to the band and working the rod a half dozen times) and the contact, at least at hand cycled speed has been eliminated. I colored it black again with a sharpie so I can see any contact with live fire.

I've still got 48 rounds loaded with 4895, so I'll try them again this weekend. I'm not sure that the contact is enough to slow it down to failure level, but it's got to be better now. I did perform the tilt test without the spring as one of the first checks, and the op rod seemed to have moved smoothly.

I'd really like the Varget loads to work, cause I use it in several cartridges and the accuracy was very good.

Thanks a lot!!

Grizz

Hmm. That's an oddity Grizz. Double check your sight plane for alignment between the front and rear sights. Every so often you'll see one that's gotten the barrel twisted a tiny bit out of alignement. If tha turns out to be the case, your local smith should be able to straighten that out in a matter of minutes.

I suspect that once the extra friction is removed from the picture, most (if not all) of your loads will work just fine.

After eliminating the contact, it still won't cycle 45 to 46.5 grains of H4198 with 1568s.

Guess I'll just stick with H414.

Grizz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grizzman

After eliminating the contact, it still won't cycle 45 to 46.5 grains of H4198 with 1568s.
Grizz

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Interesting powder designation - and a very heavy bullet. This is a good example of why one can never trust data found on discussion boards.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever bother proofreading.

Allright, I had a bit of a problem with numbers, and I 'm done trying to post from my BlackBerry (my other posts are obviously not hack jobs and more complete than most people would consider typical).

Here's the correct information:

After eliminating the contact, it will still only chamber the last couple of rounds within a clip with loads using 45.0 to 46.5 grains of H4895 with Hornady 168 A-MAXES or Sierra 150 GameKings in mil brass with CCI #34s.

Guess I'll just stick with H414.

Is there a way to edit past posts? I sure don't see it.

Grizz

How did the 4895 and Varget loads work out?

There was no improvement at all with Varget and H4895. It still functions fine with Greek HXP. I colored the band black with a sharpie to easily see any contact, and there was none.

I still think that the issue is with the op rod and/or gas cylinder. The piston on the op rod that I was sent as a replacement measured the same as the original one.

Grizz

I use 47 grains of either H or IMR 4895 or varget and mine works just fine.

I also use 40.5 grains of the same powders in my .308 Garands with good results.

They are about in the middle of the suggested load data in the Lyman book.

At this point my thought is get another gas cylinder/op-rod combo and test that. Not a cheap fix, but it's kinda getting to that point.

TDH- Interestingly enough, I actually use 40gr flat of 4895 in my 30.06 M1 with my cast bullets with no issue at all. Of course they are a bit larger than jacketed bullets and are gas checked as well.

I've got a local friend with an M1, so I'll see if he wants to meet me at a local range. If I load up some ammo withe 46.5 grains of Varget and test it in his M1. If it works, then I can put his op rod in my M1 and try them out. If that still doesn't work, then I can put his gas cylinder in my M1.

This won't solve the problem, but it'll at least possibly allow me to identify the cause. If the op rod ends up being the cause, I see that Columbus Machine Works can replace the piston, and there are likely other options for that service also.

Grizz

There's also ammogarand.com. I've gotten a part or two there with good results. Let's hope the solution becomes clear in short order. I hate the idea of having a "down" rifle in my cabinet. I don't imagine you like it much either.