Found a duplicate post.
Tunnel Gun...
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Found a duplicate post.
Tunnel Gun...
FWIW I rate the film as absolutely excellent. I can't recall any specific references off the top of my head, & I am sure they would never have been officially sanctioned, but I have little doubt that sawn-off SMLE's were carried underground. Many years ago I bought a very poor conditioned cut down SMLE from a local auction, mainly because the auctioneers seemed to have no idea that the weapon was still a section 1 firearm under UK legislation. I bought it just to stop anyone who didn't have the appropriate authority from getting themselves into trouble by purchasing it. Regrettably it was so rusty only the butt was salvageable. However, as it was quite crudely but intentionally cut through the wood & barrel immediately in front of the barrel band. I often wondered if it was an ex-tunneller's rifle.....
ATB
Postscript ----- Thanks Nige (parallel thread).
Hi ... :)
You might want to try the Google CSE custom search engine located in the top right corner below the words "Advanced Search". For example, in your case, type in the words tunnel smle and see what happens .. ;)
I only had a quick look, so I'm not sure what the exact content is about, however, it turned up these threads. You may want to try some other search terms of your own. I notice the first link talks about "Below Hill 60".
Tunnel Gun...
1916 Shortened SMLE Enfield?
Milsurps - Shortened No. 1 Mk III* Rifle
Although I don't find it as deep and thorough, you can also use the regular vBulletin built-in search engine. It's the one that has the magnifying glass to the right of the entry field. With it, if you're looking for an exact phrase, I often put quotes around it such as "tunnel smle", which you also do in Google's CSE.
Regards,
Doug
I'm not an avid film goer but a reasonably sensible sort of chap who has a firm grasp on what we poms call '.........the bleedin obvious'. And to me, as one who has been close to an L42 fired across a room by a holed-up Gurkha sniper, The mere notion that anyone......., anyone that is, except a true clown who hasn't got a firm grasp of the bleedin' obvious would take a cut down full-house rifle into a tunnel is not on this orbitory planet.
Come on chaps................... Lets have a degree of common sense.............. I understand what the 'stories' say, but these 'tunnel' guns might help if you're advertising one to sell to another chump, but............. I'll tell you what. Sit in your small garage or something similar in diameter to a tunnel, take your ear-boxes off and fire a live round from a, say, 9mm pistol a few feet into a target. But better still, get your wife and kids in there to represent your tunnelling mates............... THey'll tell you a few home truths when they've got their hearing back - if ever
Cut off tunnelling rifles.......................... What's the current parlance......... Get real!
Crawl into a bridge culvert about half meter in diameter. No muffs, and touch off. Have someone there to take you home after. Put video on youtube.
Peter says it all. When I was small I used to go groundhog hunting with my Grandfather. One afternoon he decided to take a shot from inside the cab of his pickup truck...... Suffice it to say, he (and I) decided that he would never do it again. It took quite a while to get my hearing back and, frankly, I'm not sure he ever did. :eek:
There are better, more effective weapons to use in the extremely close quarters of a tunnel than a rifle. Knives and picks and shovels come quickly to mind.
I'm thinking ..... post WWI Britain, cheap guns (or bring-backs) minimal gun control, depopulated countryside, depression & poverty, undermanned country estates, too many poachers, short concealed gun, trip-cord . . . FLASHBANGWALLOP !
How about it ? would explain the corroded condition, perhaps.
FWIW I'm not talking about the wisdom of making or the desirability of firing such shortened weapons, only that I suspect it highly likely that people did unofficially try it (though see Nigel's posting about official interest on the parallel thread on the same subject).
I also think one's eardrums would be fair trade for one's life in a short vicious fight sixty feet underground. If these cut off rifles were used it would only have been in an immediately life-threatening situation. Not for fun as with the one I made.
But I digress, I'm off to The Somme in a few hours so I'll ask my friend who works in the museum in Albert & who has links with The Historial in Peronne, if they have any information in their archives. You never know what might turn up.
ATB
I'd be inclined to agree that one eardrums might be a fair trade off DRP but if you were going to need such a weapon, why not have a six shot weapon that you could aim, fire and at least stand a chance of hitting with.
One question I always wanted to ask was how did they carry this rifle while they were at the front of the tunnell (which is where you'd presumably need it) You might have guessed already, but I|'m a sceptic.........
All of the other shortened rifles, such as the 'initiators' and 'launchers' have some official paperwork. But strangely, nothing seems to exist for these tunnel rifles...............................
OK I accept your opinion on this matter peter BUT,
do you really think they worried about their hearing? OH&S in those days was whilst on the front line "keep ya F.....G head down!!!" There are numerous artifacts showing what was used for weapons in trench raids/fighting and anything available was used. Why do you think the tunnel rats where any different?
What about the stories of cutting down bayonets? officially you where even allowed to sharpen them!!
What about the background effect they used once or twice called artillery? do you think that may have been a little more effective in noise and concussion?
I have been in a 5mX3M shed and had a 6.5X55 swede round go off(out the shed wall and into the paddock) and besides having my hearing go for a couple of seconds and some ringing for awhile no more short term effects.
To think that they didn't use them and only used the official issue rifle is incredulous to say the least!
Do I have any official paperwork? NO, but how many times have you seen things not done by the book?
Just my opinion,
cheers
OUT
NED
Unfortunately troops I guess this critter has been fed and now won't leave. It's like the Tanker Garand. They made a couple and found them unsuccessful but there sure are a lot around. Quite a few originals too! Just ask the owner. He'll tell you. Same with the #1 MkIII shorty. Tried but unsuccessful. A bunch of those around too. I know, I built one for a guy myself...
Peter, interesting post. My dad was overseas in WWI and told me he knew of "battles" underground when tunnelers broke into the other sides tunnel. I always envisioned hand tools, knives and possibly a .38 revolver being used..what do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I shot a .300 Win. Magnum in a location that was "stupid" and paid the price for a couple of days, never thought about the muzzle blast 'till it was too late.
I was slightly in front and to the side a .223 once and am partially deaf in one ear as result. This was outdoors too. Anything louder than flatulence in a tunnel is going to hurt.
BAR made the best comment (see page 1, comment 5) on this tunnel gun fairy story that I've ever heard. Nothing more need be said. The notion that after the stunning shock of the blast you could do anything but stand there like a dazed zombie afterwards is.................. Have you ever been in a training house when it's assaulted with a stun grenade? Think stun grenade
And yet martin bryant supposedly fired 29 .223 rounds inside a confined space without hearing protection (supposedly) and was able to function perfectly well.Quote:
Originally Posted by xa-coupe