just minutes ago........

Was watching tv news and spotted a #4 Enfield perched on the shoulder of a "rebel" walking down the road near Tripoli. Whenever I see reports on the little war going on over there I'm always on the lookout for Enfields but never truly expected to see one. My wife thought I had gone off the deep end when I reacted to seeing the rifle. Was Libya one of the middle eastern countries that had a supply of Enfields? Possibly some storage area still has a few crates of them? Also noticed a fn fal or a copy with wooden buttstock which would be an oldie too. At any rate the Enfields are still out there doing their thing.

Libya was the scene of several battles during WWII. It would not be unusual for some of these rifles to be picked up on a battlefield by the Native people.

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Libya was ruled by the pro-British King Idris until Gaddafi GDuck's 1969 coup and large areas were used by the British army for exercises . It's not surprising that Libya was supplied with British arms in the '50s.

Saw picture of a rebel showing a Webley & Scott flare gun from WWI in todays newspaper.

YEAAAH...Um, Can You say Major Battles in that part of the world During WW2. An Enfield would be no surprise. That and I am sure that all sorts of stuff is being pumped into the rebels from all over.....

Il find some pictures but I have a pic of a MG 42 from WW2 at a Iraqi check point I saw in Iraq in 2006. I also found a Enfeild in peices. I cant explain that one.

There was a doco on nat geo a few years back where a reporter was imbedded with some coalition troops in iraq. Their standard issue heavy machine gun was an Mg 42. Can't remember which nation they were from but im thinking Albania? Was a good doco with plenty of action in it. I can remember the MG 42 letting fly with a few rounds during a firefight. Good stuff.

May have been Romanian troops come to think of it.

Pablo, I would be surprised if those were original mg-42's, more likely the mg3. It still looks the same, but a modified design.

I watched a documentary about the recent Afghanistan conflict and one weapon captured was a No.1 Mk. III. The British have occupied/had control over just about everywhere in the mid east at some point or another.

There was a picture in today's London Evening Standard of two Libyan rebels and I noted one of them had a No.4. I'd guess it was a reserve weapon looted from an armoury.

Various sorts of British weapons got sold to that part of the world after WWII. For example, I believe my Lanchester SMG came from Egypt.

The nations that ended up with loads of Lanchesters, such as Egypt and the South Americans got them as part of the complete package when they purchased ex Royal Navy ships. I saw one with a letter/number combination that someone deciphered to indicated that it was originally on a destroyer(?) HMS Cadiz. It came with an Australian bayonet, They'd obviously been together for a long time because a) it was jammed on solid and literally immoveable and b) was in the same crap condition as the Egyptian(?) Lanchester!

The Pakistanis still make and use a version of the MG42, do they not? Pakistan sent troops to Iraq.

Were Pakistani troops part of the coalition forces.............? I know that there were Pakistani's there................ but on the side of the enemy! (our enemy that is.......)

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The nations that ended up with loads of Lanchesters, such as Egypt and the South Americans got them as part of the complete package when they purchased ex Royal Navy ships. I saw one with a letter/number combination that someone deciphered to indicated that it was originally on a destroyer(?) HMS Cadiz. It came with an Australian bayonet, They'd obviously been together for a long time because a) it was jammed on solid and literally immoveable and b) was in the same crap condition as the Egyptian(?) Lanchester!

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My one isn't that bad, although there's no finish left on the metalwork other than that covered by the stock. It came with a free P1907 bayonet which was definitely near scrap quality. (Although that came with a nice WWI type scabbard...)

Is anyone willing to speculate that there might still be government caches of British arms in good useable condition in Libya or some other mid-east countries or what we are seeing is just odds and ends that private individuals have stashed away for personal use. Whatever the case I would bet the ammo they are using is the click-bang stuff. I have never bought any of it but was given a small amount some time ago. I learned to use it similar to shooting my flintlock. Just hold your sight picture steady until the whole "ignition process" runs it's course! It was very inaccurate but was good enough for 100 yards or so.

Ah yes the old SMLE in the hole in the ground trick. Just how long can you bury a weapon in the ground and still expect to use the darn thing. Our boys over in that rock pile they call Afghanistan are constntly digging up old 303s and there ammo. The condition of the weapons vary, as does the ammo, 1 in 10 may go off if your lucky if its been cached properly. As to the manufactures of said 303s they vary as do the ammo, league of nations type stuff. But will still hurt at a great distance if it hits you!!!!
Regards
Fergs

I've seen a few No.4s on the shoulders of libyan rebels on the news of late. Oddly enough, earlier in the week my wife was watching video of Elizabeth and Phillip's wedding (British Pathe B&W film) and guardsmen had SMLEs as evidenced by the long bayonets (fixed). You'd have thought that at that point after the war they would have had No.4s.

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Oh, on another note, aren't the Germans still making/using a modern (post-war) version of the MG42?

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

guardsmen had SMLEs as evidenced by the long bayonets (fixed). You'd have thought that at that point after the war they would have had No.4s.

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Curious. Are you sure they weren't No.4's with the No.7 blade bayonet? (For the Sten Mk5 SMG) These were favoured by some guards regiments after the war for appearance, even though officially you weren't meant to fire a No.4 with one fixed as the bayonet wasn't thought strong enough.

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

on another note, aren't the Germans still making/using a modern (post-war) version of the MG42?

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Yes, the 7.62x51mm NATO calibre MG3. The most obvious external difference between the two is the shape of the flash-hider. I believe MG3's are also made under license in Pakistan.

Was on the Kenya / Sudan border recently. The govt of Kenya has armed the local Turkana to deter raids from the Somali "shifta" bandits. A pleasant sight to see tribesmen walking off into the evening bush to patrol armed with No 1 Mk III*s. Moreover, the UN humanitarian food drops were being done from Dakota DC3s (re-fitted with turbo-props). (And no, I wasn't having a flashback from that bad acid at Woodstock)

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Originally Posted by peregrinvs

Are you sure they weren't No.4's with the No.7 blade bayonet? (For the Sten Mk5 SMG) ...

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I'm sure. The bayonets were obviously (by the apparent length) too long to be anything but a Pat'n. 1907 bayonet. The rifles admittedly weren't as easily distinguishable (quality of the film).

Idle speculation: perhaps they were Australians parading with their own weapons?

That's a remote possibility as all the troops lining the route appeared to be similarly equipped, but a possibility none the less.