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After talking to CGN's resident Swede collector who has seen Marstars sniper he says it has a few issues and not worth the premium prices they are calling for.
I've not run across any other snipers and was curious if anyone has ever been able to "dicker" with Marstar?
I'm in no rush and am willing to spend the cash to get the right rifle.
I believe I looked at this piece in September of 2005. It was a real challenge (several unanswered emails) to get much information from Marstar. I also kept asking for additional pics besides the single one in their ad, as nobody is going to buy a $2,700 premium priced piece from a single long distance wide angle pic. I had also asked for a pre-purchase inspection and return, of course I would pay the shipping expense both ways. That was refused, as indicated in the email below.
Here's their advertisement.....
Quote:
Swedish Mauser 1896 Sniper Rifle w. Optic
Rare Swedish military sniper rifle with correct optic and mount. Superb shooter especially since the regular infantry rifles are renowned for their accuracy. Extremely collectible and in great condition.
Tag #: 075 Condition: Exc. Status: available $2,700.00
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...user-407-L.jpg
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Here's the email I received from them.......
In my opinion only, the rifle is worth between $1,000 and $1,200 Cdn as a collectible in that condition. It may be worth more, but in the absence of more information forthcoming, better pics, or a pre-purchase inspection, I'd be reluctant to even try to bridge the gap between their $2,700 asking price and a lower valuation.Quote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian ....... (Edit: email address removed for privacy.)
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:02 AM
> To: ......... (Edit: email address removed for privacy.)
> Subject:
>
>
> FULLY MATCHING GUN
> SCOPE NOT MATCHING WITH THE MOUNT
> SCREWS MANGULED
> SCOPE FOGGY
> SORRY WE CAN'T SEND YOU THE GUN FOR A PRE-PURCHASE
>
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ns/Marstar.jpg
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
I forgot about the rifle for a long time, then noticed that this ad at the same price was still there. I wondered if they now had a different m41, but after sending several emails with no replies trying to find out, I simply gave up.
BTW, although they don't indicate it in the advertisement, it's actually a Swedish m/41 mounted with the AGA 3x65 m/44 scope, which is was the 1944 version of this model built in Sweden. The version before that was the 1942 AGA 3x65 scope.
Regards,
Badger
> SCOPE FOGGY - should be listed in the item description!
No flame intended, but wouldn't you think this information would be important to the potential buyer?
$.02
OS
Well, when any commercial seller describes that the condition of the piece they're advertising is Excellent, then I would agree with you 100%. It's one of the reasons I thought they were actually talking about two different rifles. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Oatmeal Savage
Regards,
Badger
"It's in excellent condition! (for a rifle 60 years old, issued, and rebuilt in Jim-Bob's basement)"
Wow foggy optics even... Sorta kills the situation for me as I don't want a safe queen.
Too bad the Samco ones are supposed to be all put togethers as well.
I don't think anyone should be embarrassed to call a spade a spade. It's a misleading description. They have some very, shall we say, unusual business practices. This is but another example.
I don't know that the dealer is purposefully deceiving anyone, but at the same time, they aren;t providing nearly enough information about a piece costing $2700. Anyone who is going to spend that kind of cash without asking questions and getting answers from the dealer probably should not be buying high-end milsurps until they've been screwed a few times on less expensive pieces to learn their lesson ;)
I agree with Badger's statement. And I do not believe that it should have been described as excellent. Especially shocking considering that it was someone in that business that wrote the description. I believe that it was deceptive because a person whose profession it is to sell firearms used those words.
SCOPE NOT MATCHING WITH THE MOUNT
> SCREWS MANGULED
> SCOPE FOGGY
This was not excellent. It's being advertised as a sniper with accroutements. Non matching scope & mount, foggy scope and manguled (mangled) screws don't sound very excellent to me.
This is what everyone uses as a guide. This is the definition of NRA Excellent - New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
:beerchug: ......... :thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
It's one of the primary reasons we thought that this forum would be a good gathering place for our members to talk about the old milsurp pieces that come up for sale on commercial sites.
To buy (or win an auction) from a Canadian site is one thing, as at least you may have a chance to send it back. However, to buy from a U.S. site or auction house, go through the complicated U.S. State Dept EXPORT process and our own IMPORT/REGISTRATION bureaucracy, just to find out the piece has "issues", could be a financial disaster on a high end collectible.
So, if any of our members are thinking about an item that they're not sure about authenticity, or wondering about valuation, it gives them a place to seek answers before spending hard earned cash.
The secret to this Commercial Auction and Sale "Gossip" Forum, is keeping a professional and mature bearing as we constructively either endorse, or alternatively criticize, the value and condition of the pieces advertised by commercial vendors.
Regards,
Badger
Many years ago, my business partner and I purchased a ml rifle from the US. It was reported to be a Marston, Toronto flintlock halfstock hunting rifle. Canadian made flintlock rifles are essentially unknown. It was not inexpensive. This was long before things like instant internet photos. The snapshots we received simply did not show detail. The rifle was a Marston, alright, but it had been fitted with a "Maslin" reproduction flintlock. The seller really did not know that the lock was modern, and had replaced the original percussion lock. He took the rifle back, and refunded our money; we were out the shipping, of course.
When established dealers use terms like "100% original", or in "excellent condition", and these terms are obviously and foolishly incorrect, the only conclusion is that the dealers' ethics are questionable.
The worst case I personally saw was a buddy who bought an "excellent condition 1941 Longbranch No.4Mk1, not a refub" and paid a premium price at the time ($500 was ALOT to pay for a Longbranch 6 or 7 years ago).
What arrived was a suncorited Brit refurb of a No.4mk1, clearly marked (F)FTR. No early parts remaining. Only the receiver and a few small bits like the safety were original to the gun. Furhtermore it had been re-issued and was pretty beat.
This dealer with a long time online presence was from western Canada and their name starts with an "M". No, I don't mean Marstar. ;) They've also been known to try and charge $20 (non refundable) for the privilege of seeing pics of the rifles they have for sale.
The dealer should have (and likely did) know better.
Another bugaboo is the dealers that will stamp already expensive rifles with SS markings, capture WaA's, C-broadarrows, etc. to increase the value. Those greedy dealers are well into the realm of questionable ethics.
IMHO an honest mistake is forgiveable. An example would be a dealer selling a K98k as original, but a knowledgeable buyer then finding out it is an east German re-issue that's been reblued or marked with the VoPo sunburst. Not all dealers are experts, they make mistakes too. In such cases, an ethical dealer will take the rifle back (if the buyer so wishes) and properly list it accordingly. You get the idea.
In the case of this sniper rifle, I think the dealer knows exactly what they have and I think it is priced optimistically. None of that is questionable, but on a piece that expensive, rather than relying on buyers to ask the right questions and wait forever for thsoe answers, the dealer SHOULD post a short blurb about the rifle which answers FAQ's about it and divulges any known issues. Sadly, I think they are big and busy enough that they'll never get around to it.
FWIW, I've had nothing but positive experiences buying things from Marstar, but like all dealers they too have their chances to make gaffs.
FWIW, I've found Marstar's QC to be very much like Norinco's QC.
I concur. They can be very nasty too, when you disagree with them.
If anyone gets a chance to handle this piece, or obtains more detailed photos, here's the same rifle to compare to in our on-line MKL.
1916 Swedish m/41 Sniper Rifle c/w AGA 3x65 m/44 Scope (click here) entry in the Swedish section (click here) of the Milsurp Knowledge Library.
Regards,
Badger