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Hi fellas, I'm new to the forum so this is my first post.
I'm thinking about buying a new Springfield Armory National Match M1A. I read somewhere on the web that the new ones have cast bolts and op rods instead of milsurp parts as in their older guns. Is this fact or rumor? I can't imagine having a cast bolt. I haven't held or had a close look at the newer production M1A's in a while. How is the general quality?;)
Forged bolts. Cast most everything else. Actually quite servicable! Barrels on the base models are not great, but otherwise, about the only common complaint are the extractors. Makes 'em eject in such a direction as to foul scope bases, resulting in "caught" brass.
Just had a pretty new one, but swapped it for something else, JUST before my new JAE stock showed up! (MONTHS waiting for that....) It shot fine. Their wood stocks are FAR better than they were in the mid '80s, BTW.
I think they did have cast bolts for a while. But Ruger's been using cast bolts forever and a day, and many people LOVE that company.
If you want a basic rifle or a match gun, then SAI is fine.
If you are thinking going custom, and you know a 'smith that is well regarded on these rifles, then start from scratch. Less parts to have left over!
Oh, welcome to the forums! Happy first post and all.
I'm an old highpower shooter and I have an older (1994) NM SA M1A that came with milsurp parts (which is great with me). I had it rebarreled by Glen Nelson about 14 years ago and eventually double lugged by Clint Fowler. I recently dragged it out of the cabinet and started shooting again and it shoots great. Been thinking about doing another one since I can't handle an AR because the short sight radius and my eye sight don't agree with each other. As I mentioned, I read somewhere about the bolts and op rod being cast so thought I would inquire.
If you want to know for sure call them up and ask for Dale, he'll fill you in. I bought an SA M1A 12 years ago and it has G.I. parts with the possible exception of the op rod. Have'nt seen a drawing # and just looks different than the surplus parts i've seen. According to SA (Dale) at the time mine was new the low end stock barrels were made by Wilson. Unless mine is the exception they can be excellent shooters after a bit of tuning.
Since you mention barrels, as I said, mine was a NM model and it came with a medium weight NM barrel. It shot like 1.25- 1.5" at 100 yds. and as I mentioned, I had Glen Nelson rebarrel it with a heavy Douglas air gage. Maybe one of the reasons that the original barrel only shot like it did was that the "NM" stamping on the barrel behind the flash suppressor was visible in the bore. In identifying it as a NM barrel, they stamp it so heavily, they screw the barrel up!
I've a rear lugged "Glen Nelson", as well, that he did for SAI some time back. Some commercial parts, some GI. Shoots well! Again, it all depends on what you are wanting in the new rifle. Been running cast SAI receivers for near on 30 years- no dramas! Others I've seen have been less than stellar, but Springfield Inc will sort any operating dramas right well, it seems.
For a serious highpower competition rifle- it may be time to start rounding up favored parts. Get it built with whatever receiver you prefer, exactly like you want. Helps with the mental aspect of the game, if nothing else! Glenn isn't around, and Hook's a bit far from Hawaii, so I don't know who to recommend right now. A friend of mine does my rifles (the ookey bedding stuff and such anyways), but we like to experiment a lot.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0021-1.jpg
Fat B@$#@^& w/ scope- Shoots too well to modify!
Mine's an NM too, forgot to put that in there. SA must've caught on to the heavy stamp buggering the bore because mine looks to be engraved.....very lightly. A fellow I used to shoot with had an M-14 that had been built up into a match gun and it had the name ''Hook'' pencilled inside the handguard and in the barrel channel of the stock. He spoke highly of the builder and was tickled pink to own a rifle he had built. Wonder if it's the same Hook you mentioned JM? Strange thing is the barrel had a 14 twist. None of us ever figured out the reason for the slow twist but it shot 168gr Fed GM as well as any i've shot.
I bought a new-in-box SA M1A last year and am very happy with it. Price was $1375. Well worth it.
B.
Likely! "Hook" Boutin generally does pencil ID markings on or in his rifles (they vary- and are not ALWAYS there) You can find his photo in Stephens' book on the M14 back in the M21 section next to another armorer. (He's not named, BTW) Still doing rifles- tests them on the range directly behind his shop! Like an idiot, I sold mine a couple of years ago- I don't know why!Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Fig. 177- You guess which one is Hook...:p
First met him in the '90s at a shoot at Ft. Benning- but I'm sure he doesn't remember me!
Ck out the M14 Forum - M14 M1A Forums They are very critical of SA Inc M1A. I have a late model one and have zero issues. Base model Walnut stock that I swapped for USGI. Extractors are the primary material complaint. Parts are cast and forged in Brazil & the PI with final machining and assembly stateside. IMHO, best thing about SA Inc. is the warrenty. Like I said, zero issues with mine.
:rolleyes:It seems to be largely a case of one-upmanship rather than any real fault of SAI. Gotta wait in line for months to get the "latest and greatest".Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr342
Hook Boutin, he's the one. Could'nt remember his last name. Evidently my pal Bill knew him personally. Bill was a retired Army captain with 20 some odd yrs. service and a 3 tour Viet nam vet, 2 as a sniper, and may have been on the shooting team, not sure on that though. Taught me a lot about percision shooting. He (Bill) is pictured in Norm Chandler's Death From Afar series, don't remember which volume, he's the old bald guy in the white shirt. I read something about SA's supply of GI parts drying up several years and them having to use new made ones in their place but I gathered that they were going to produce the parts themselves. Guess not. I wonder if they make their own M1A receivers. Lithgow in Australia makes their Garand receivers. Did'nt the military snap up a bunch of the M1A's at one time? Might be the reason for the wait.
Another fascinating gentleman with whom I conversed regularly at Benning was Mr. McQueen. AMU shooter, Viet nam vet++, He was a "model" for some of the illustrations in the M14 marksmanship training manual- Someone framed the photo used for demonstrating the proper rapid fire sitting position (blown up to poster size) and hung it on the wall in his "office" at English Range. A bit like meeting a rock star, I guess- I never got all that excited about "celebrity types", but I sure looked forward to matches down there!!! Great folk.
I think the problem people have with SAI is that the company has attempted to keep prices in check- so their mfg. methods have had to be cost effective. They have had teething pains when changes were made, but they've stood behind their product the whole time. Building these rifles isn't easy, the machining set-ups are complicated, and so precision casting is used where feasible to contain costs. Some few parts will have to remain "old school", but as long as the end product functions, and will interchange with the original, I'm not gonna complain. They do need to sort their extractor dramas, though- scopes are quite common on this platform now!
Check the prices on new mfg. forged and milled M14 type parts- very high! Some have been of fairly unsatisfactory quality, at least initially- No names- They seem to be improving, but their prices will likely reflect the costs of the improvements.
Oh, one there's area in which SAI did fail pretty miserably- Optics! Aieee! utter rubbish 90% of the time. Just enough good ones to keep you guessing- I've an odd ball that's apparently uncatalogued which works fine, and I've witnessed a couple of others that did OK, BUT!!!
There's a few over there on M14 Forums that consider any M14 type that doesn't have a forged receiver to be junk. Savvy M1A owners know better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr342
Funny thing, that. The absolutely WORST M14 receivers I've seen from a functional standpoint have been forged civilian type receivers. Poorly machined in either appearnace or dimensions/datum placement- and not the odd players you might expect- BUT they were earlier examples- nothing new has shown up with dramas yet.
I am not going to throw stones. People in glass houses and all that. I have noticed in the time I have been coming here that especially among collectors (not throwing stones) are more dead set against SAI than shooters. I've had my M1A Scout for 2 years now and the only real problem I have had is the gas plug loosens and must be tightened. Scope mounts are an entirely different story. I have tried several.One I had that mpunts to the side of the receiver and the charger slot would trap the brass even after a lot of judicious inleting. The Scout model has a scope mount in front of the receiver and takes a long eyereleif scope I finally found a one lever QD mount that keeps within a click or two of zero well.
I shoot at 3" targets at 100 yards and usually hit waht I'm shooting at and I'm 60 and have worn glasses for 50 years. the rifles work well.
You cannot beat their warrenty. LIFETIME unless you abuse it purposely. And extends to magazines as well.
There was a time back in the late 70s when Springfield Armory Inc went to cast bolts but they ended up having a huge recall due to major issues with using a cast bolt.
Presently their bolts are forged but if you buy an M-1A built in the past few years, since they ran out of USGI parts, you should change out the internals of your SAI bolt for USGI parts.
The op rod and the rest of the rifle's internal parts are made from cast commercial parts imported from Wayne Machine, Inc. (Taipei, Taiwan).
7th
I bought a loaded m1a in feb17 of this year.I have shot about 300 rds not a problem!It has a forged bolt.This is my second m1a my other is 12 yrs old has GI bolt and op rod.I love my m1a rifles.Both rifles are accurate!You can't go wrong with Springfield Armory Inc.Thier lifetime warranty is great!I also have a 7.62 forged rec rifle and Springfield shoots just as good .So don't worry about buying a SA rifle.SA has been building m1a rifles along time if they were bad rifles they wouild have closed up along time ago!
They ain't none of these rifles what be collectible and all. Some of their PARTS, maybe, but aside from the few folk like andy_ita that have 'sho 'nuff M14s, these rifles (receivers) are all wanna-be's.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDH
One of my favorite wanna-be's, though! And a darn fine tool in it's own right.
I'm a shooter and don't regard M1A's as collectible. My concern was the rumor about SAI using cast bolts (and to an extent, op rods). Apparently the cast bolt issue is no longer a concern. Other than that, I have no problems with SAI's cast receivers. The one I have is nicely detailed and shows no porosity.:thup:
The 1 in 14 twist would be the hot setup to shoot the 155g Palma match bullet. If you get a bit of heavy air like at sea level, the 168g may not stay stable at 600 yards and beyond.