Highwood To Low Wood To Highwood

Attachment 22159Attachment 22160Attachment 22161Attachment 22162Attachment 22163Attachment 22164Attachment 22165Attachment 22166 We,ve been having some rainy/snowy weather and I've been killing some time out in the "Hideout".
Here is a type2 OI stock that had a real hard life and needed some major repairs. It was broken from the front of the TH on both sides. The left side break went all the way to the barrel chanel.
Cleaned it up, glued the breaks and pinned the weak spots. Got the thought of restoring it back to a highwood, and would like to share the results.....Frank

Frank, I think you are really showing some high quality skills. I could never do the miracles you do :)

However, are you developing a technique that could potentially used by others?

Hi Ed, I replace missing and broken pieces in gun stocks all the time. I did an M1 Garand stock for a friend a while back. It needed some small cracks fixed and some patches.
I just put a patch in the right rail on a nice M-U LW stock, can hardly tell. It made it look a whole lot better. I'll get a picture of that repaire up in the morning.
I think this one looks better now also, compare the first pic and the sixth pic.
Are you thinking that restoring the HW is somehow crossing the line?

I'm interested in what you and the others think.....Frank

Just looked at the time. I'm off to the karate school, back about 8:30

I would say no line crossed. It's obviously been repaired, if you are buying a collector HW and you don't ask for pics, shame on you. A buddy if mine just got burned by not getting good pics.
Frank, do you want to fix a stock for me? I have a collector grade QHMC I dropped ad it broke in half. :(
PM me if you want to try!
Dave

Nice job Frank.

Frank, I think it looks grreeaatt! and no, you are not crossing the line.

I was just expressing a concern that certain others will see it, practice to repair a cut Type I and the use fuzzy pics to sell. Anything I did like that would be spotted in a moment. But if someone in Cailfornia happened to to have half the wood skills you and Charlie do, then alot of people will get riped off.

I consider what you are doing well within the proper world of repair and refurbishing REAL collectors.

Thanks Ed, I only wanted to share with you guys some of the stock work that I do. I took a lot of pictures of this project and thought I filtered out most of the technicle pics of "How To".
If you think I should deleat some or all of these please let me know.
I don't think you could make an oval cut into an I cut because of the dimensional differances. But I see your point that someone could try and take some fuzzy pics and try to doop a buyer.
I hope it hasn't got to the point were we can't even share what we consider part of the hobby of collecting, fixing and restoring.....Frank

Frank, when I first read your post I got really angry ! The next day however, I decided your woodworking skills and honesty, should be acknowledged and thanked. I got a couple of Carbines here where the Hi- Wood has been busted off and someone has tried to make it look like it never happened etc .... you know the story. This pic is of two I think are O.K. A good Hi Wood shouldn't have a sanded corner, but hard to learn about as most of that very vulnerable point of an early Carbine was busted off in the early stages of combat in 42/43 etc. Cheers Bud, Mike.Attachment 22323

Frank ; Great job! I guess to some folks "RESTORATION" means trying to fool someone for profit. To me it is an honest effort to bring an object back to its original state. It is still not original as it has been repaired and parts replaced. I guess if you restore a car,boat etc. it's OK to "some folks". Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing. GK

I don’t see how changing a stock back to a highwood that was altered by the government from a highwood to a lowwood to bring it up to current specs back in the day is any different than re-stamping the cartouche, removing a rebuild marking, removing markings from a type 3barrel band or removing an import mark.

They all change the historical integrity that for the most part we are trying to preserve.

Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be.

John

John, I'm not seeing your point.
I know that alot of the carbine communitee would have "NO" problem putting a flip sight on a carbine that the "government" had upgraded to an adjustable sight. There has been discussion on this forum about it being O.K. with the use of JB weld to fill holes.
I took a stock that was toast. Fix the broken parts, and gave it a try to restore the highwood.
I have stocks that were repaired at manufacture and at rebuild. Some would be concidered top notch and others Friday night specials.
I'll put up a pic of an IBM poorly cut down highwood in the morning, and would like your imput on it, as to leave it's "history" or make it look good for my IBM rebuild.....Frank

Here is an LW-B stock that got the rail cut down. It has a .U. rebuild stamp on the left side.
I don't know that, that is were the rail got "bobbed" but whoever did it didn't do a very neat job of it. I'm going to use it on an IBM B/R that is mine. It has a nice CC. just behind the grip. I'm going to do something with it, and I have an idea but does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks.....Frank

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Frank,

I have divided my herd into "shooters" and "collectors". Of course any "collector" gets the most appropriate stock to represent the collectability of the weapon itself - spare no expense for the correct part (properly documenting any changes, of course). Shooters get nice stocks, but I focus more on the "shootability" of the stock and how it mates with the metal to put bullets where they are suppose to go. As an example, I have a great NPM-stamped Trimble stock on an NPM I got from CMP. However, the carbine is a shooter (great shooter condition but little collector value). Its on my list to get a Walnut SA potbelly I am refinishing as a shooter stock. The NPM-Trimble stock will be put aside to prevent damage awaiting a collectable NPM that is cold and nekid.

I guess what I am saying is that if your IBM stock has collector value, then treat it like a collectable. If you feel that it has limited collector value, then treat it like a shooter. Most importantly, enjoy your IBM and shoot it with a stock that supports it being the best gun possible.

Just my two cents....

Frank, It's yours to do what you want, right? Is the main problem that the cut drops too low toward the front? I think if it were mine, I would extend the cut on forward the correct distance - if it's only a little bit low, you could take it down slightly all the way back to the recoil plate area. If that's not an option, maybe add a small piece of wood to fill in the low spot? - Bob

Here's a pictorial on a stock "repair job" that I did this last winter. This stock came on an otherwise "fairly original and correct" S'G' carbine that I bought last summer. After looking at the price of replacement stocks, I decided to go the "DYI" repair route. I used some tips picked up on this forum from Frank and Charlie. Until now I've been reluctant to show pictures here, but I think it fits with the theme of Frank's thread. - Bob
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Frank,

My perspective on stock and handguard restoration is nothing more than Ordinance would have done. Anything that would make it serviceable; gluing, pinning and patching is all I think should be done now. In my opinion adding something back that was intentionally removed by Ordinance; like the highwood is a step too far.

If the goal is to have a collector grade carbine it can only be a collector grade stock, not one that has been repaired to look like it. If it’s for a shooter I don’t see that it makes much difference.

As for the IBM stock from what I can see in the photos if it were mine I would leave it alone, But, more importantly it’s yours and you should do whatever you want.

Is it damage or character? Depends on your point of view and I would rather it be what it is and not what I want it to be. It may not be pretty but it is what it is.

For me carbines that are a little beat up, have a lot finish worn off and look a little tried are the best. That been there, done that look can’t be replaced once it’s gone.

Respectfully,
John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankderrico

Here is an LW-B stock that got the rail cut down. It has a .U. rebuild stamp on the left side.
I don't know that, that is were the rail got "bobbed" but whoever did it didn't do a very neat job of it. I'm going to use it on an IBM B/R that is mine. It has a nice CC. just behind the grip. I'm going to do something with it, and I have an idea but does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks.....Frank

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Frank,
I have a Type III UEF stock with a really nice boxed UEF/GHD and CC that has the opposite problem. Made as a Lo-wood, but didn't get cut far enough forward down the right rail for length. It's on a W coded Underwood receiver. At first I thought maybe the receiver may have had a deeper ring milled for the HG retaining lip, thus causing it to sit farther back. But no matter what HG I put on it, the notched HG step won't line up being to far to the rear. Have thought about trimming back the cut on the HG, but haven't decided to.
I think if that was my stock you have there, I'd go ahead and nibble off enough of the right rail to even it up with your HG. It would be the sturdiest repair possible in this case.
You make a good point in Not Knowing where or when some of these cut downs were made and more than likely never will know.... for sure.

While speaking of repairs to stocks...
Remember the CMP Rock Ola I got a hold of? Direct from CMP to a friend then to me.
It has a small patch on the right rail. No pins or threaded rods.
I highly doubt the CMP patched it.... So who did? RA-P ? RIA/EB ? Rock Ola?
I'll post pictures of it below. Since taking these pictures I've filled the gap on the filler patch better and applied 1 more coat of oil finish. This is one I stripped. The fellow member I bought it from said "You'd have to be Superman to see any cartouche markings" after I had asked about the boxed RMC and CC. The repair must have been pretty old as the stock and patch were nearly black before I stripped it. But even at being near black you could make out the RA-P and most of the RIA/EB stamp.
In this case I'm glad I worked on it as like he had said... you couldn't make out any markings before hand. One I'll sell along with some other stocks and parts when I get the chance to list.
I've taken my share of beatings for refinishing stocks. Most of the stocks I strip have the rack paint jobs on them. But more often than not after stripping you'll find cracks, splits, grain checks, Factory patches or old repairs that even the owners weren't aware were there. No markings disturbed and wood preserved for many more years of service. They'll age and darken over time.

Regards and JMO,
Charlie-painter777

RA-P on Grip..
RIA over EB on the leftside...
Circled P on front of grip...
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USGI,
Nice save Bob!
It's nice to see that BUBBA can be beaten.
That stock can live on and see some happier days.
You may not have been around yet when I posted (now Lost) pictures of a very nice Type II S'G' stock that BUBBA had cut the wood from under the buttplate off and had put on a rubber recoil pad.
I was able to shave off the wood I needed from a donor stock, re-attach and slid a buttplate back on her.
I showed the repair in my auction pictures and found a happy to get her buyer.
Good feeling when we knock the ham handed BUBBA's off their feet.
Sure looks better.......... Nice job.

Regards
Charlie-painter777

Usgi; nice job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is becoming an iteresting thread. Wouldn't you agree Bill.
Charlie, thanks for weighing in. My thoughts exactally, about nibbling off some of the rail to match up with the HG.
And that was my thought, to provoke some disscusion on the subject. I could easly put a highwood on the LW-B but that is not my intent.
USGI, nice save Bob, I'm glad that this thread gave you the oppertunity to show us a real nice repair. Nice workmenship for sure. That repair would make the Irwin's proud.
TR, shooting is my main concern also. That's what they were intended to do. I try to balance both worlds, but accuratsy is first.
Herk, I have to ask again is replacing sights, safeties and barrel bands off limits? Or only wood, IYO? TIA.....Frank

Very good question Frank! May I add;Will replacing or repairing a damaged part ruin the historic value of anything? Have paintings done by the Master painters of long ago lost their value because a "Professional" did touch up work to bring them back to their original beauty? .02

Frank,

I don’t think there is a definitive answer. We all have a different perspective on what is acceptable based on our desired results. I have changed the parts you mentioned on a few carbines, on a couple I changed them back to the parts that were on the gun when I got it. A couple still have the changed parts on them that I may or may not change back.

Please don’t think I view myself any more righteous that you or any other carbine collector, I’m not and never will be. In reality these are our carbines and we all have the free will and right to make whatever changes we care to.

I think we need to be honest and forthright about those changes when we sell it. But, I don’t think we’re responsible from that point on, if that information gets left out by future sells they’re at fault.

As for the stock project you started this thread with I took a stand that cannot be held. Someone will always be pushing the envelope. I guess that’s what makes the hobby interesting and evolving. You have exceptional wood working skills, if you are pleased with the results; that’s what matters most.

John

John, thank you for the compliment.
In the spirit of collecting, Best regards.....Frank

Hey Charlie,

That's not a patch THIS is a patch.
This came on a Bavarian IBM I got. You couldn't see it it had so much polyurethane finish and dark stain until I cleaned it. It is a Q-RMC stock that is still a highwood. It does have a very faint P on the grip and AAM on the left. I doubt this is a US repair myself.

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