so im going to try to get an m1 garand form cmp sometime in the next few mouths. what should i look out for. any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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so im going to try to get an m1 garand form cmp sometime in the next few mouths. what should i look out for. any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.
I would say it depends on what you want and what they have. What are you looking for?
im looking for a good shooter
One piece of advice: Spend as much as you can possibly afford and buy the highest grade you can get--but NOT one of the "new, unfired" rifles (those are just too costly). A Service Grade would be the minimum, but a Correct Grade or one of the "Specials" would also be nice.
Visit the CMP Forums and look at the photos of rifles other folks have received. Read their comments.
These are some of the considerations I use when evaluating a Garand.
The first set is “serviceability”.
In the Garand, bore condition is key to how well the rifle will shoot, closely followed by stock fit. If you tell Leon (at the South Store) or whoever else is behind the counter what you want & they will be most helpful.
First, look at the muzzle & bore. Inspect the muzzle as well as gauging it. The muzzle gauge (bring your own or borrow one from the CMP) is used to check how much wear has occurred to the lands in the bore. The gauge reads between 0 and 8, 0 corresponds to .300" (perfect) to .308" (worn slap out). Many new barrels will read between 1 & 2; a 0 is somewhat rare. In WWII, many barrels left the factory reading 3 due to relaxed tolerances. The crown should be free of nicks, burrs or any other defect. Any ding or dent will not only cause inaccuracy but will give a false MW reading since it prevents the gauge from fully entering the bore. Muzzle condition is more important than throat condition so pay more attention to it. The muzzle is more important than the throat in determining accuracy; smaller reading at the muzzle are better. The throat erosion (TE) is also measured between 0-8 and the closer to 0 the happier you will be. Inspect the bore (bring a bore light & magnifying glass for close inspection of all parts) to make sure there is no rust or pits, etc. Once you find a rifle with a good bore, take it to the counter & ask the armorer to inspect it for you.
These are the things that must be good:
1. Stock fit. Unlatch the trigger guard & with the metal seated in the stock, grab the rear sight & try to move the metal fore & aft in the stock. There should be no movement; if there is, the action will shift in the stock every shot & accuracy will suffer. A tight stock fit is just as important as a good muzzle with respect to accuracy; a rifle with a perfect barrel can not shoot well in a loose stock.
2. Headspace. It is supposed to be checked during inspection prior to being sent out for sale but double check; some rifles with improper headspace may rarely sneak through; when the CMP had 1903s I saw some that had not been finish reamed (short headspace).
3. The op rod. Closely look (magnifying glass) at the tip. It should be round with a nice sharp edge. (I once bought a CMP Garand where the op rod must have been dropped on a concrete floor as one side was flat, which does not happen from any kind of shooting or normal wear; the CMP swapped out that op rod as it was not serviceable; I saw another with an obvious nick on the edge). Also look at the tab; the hooks & the bolt locking lug recess. All these areas should be free from any burrs or excess wear. The armorer will do this for you.
4. The gas cylinder. Ask the armorer to gauge this for you. They have a special gauge for this which they do not lend out!
5. The trigger housing assembly. The lugs on the trigger guard should be round or nearly so; when worn, they develop a flat where they latch into the receiver. The trigger guard should latch with some effort.
6. Inspect all the metal for rust, pitting, damage, etc.
7. Inspect the stock, inside & out for cracks, splits, missing chips, etc. Garand stocks typically crack at the clip latch area. The USGI fix was to repair the stock with brass pins which is OK if done well.
If you know for sure you are going to buy a Garand, right now, before you go, find the Orion 7 website (Orion 7 Enterprises Inc.) & order a new op rod spring & clip latch spring. Change springs before you shoot the rifle. When you get the rifle home, take the old springs out & throw them away. Even if you get a rifle that was never issued, the springs are 50 years old. The op rod spring is the only thing that prevents the bolt from hitting the heel of the receiver; a weak or worn op rod spring allows the bolt to hit so hard that it can crack the heel & destroy the receiver. The Army replaced op rod springs every 5000 rounds when the rifle was in service; match shooters replace them every year. The Orion 7 op rod springs are the best made & cheap, about $8. Don't scrimp here; some springs cost a couple dollars less but are not as good. Some sellers offer surplus GI springs for $5 but they have the same problem - they're 50 years old. The clip latch spring also often fails & causes premature clip ejection. It's cheap too, $1. I bought a Service Grade Special and was pleased to find that it came with an Orion 7 op rod spring.
The second set is “accuracy” Many of these are evaluated & corrected at home, after your purchase. A very few Garands rate “perfect” and those cost $$$.
There are several factors beside the barrel & stock that determine how well a Garand groups.
Does the TG lock up tight in the stock. Loose fit = larger groups.
Does the gas cyl touch the upper hand guard? Yes= larger groups.
Does the rear of the lower hand guard touch the receiver? Yes = larger groups.
Is the front sight tight? No = larger groups.
Does the gas cylinder fit tight? Any movement = larger groups.
Does the op rod rub the stock or barrel (pass the tilt test)? Yes = larger groups plus probable feeding & ejection problems.
Is there excessive play in the aperture of the rear sight? Does the sight keep its elevation setting? The sight cover may be loose & need replacing. Excessive play or slippage = larger groups.
Orion 7 op rod spring installed? Ditch any USGI op rod spring & install an Orion 7 op rod spring.
Make sure the Gas cyl lock & gas cyl lock screw are tight. Loose = inaccuracy
Make sure the lower band is tight on the barrel & that the pin is tight. Early pins were solid; these quickly loosened up with use and were replaced with the rolled spring steel pin. These stayed tight since they were, in effect, under spring tension all the time. Quite a few CMP Garands came with the old solid pin. A loose lower band or lower band pin prevents the stock from locking solidly to the barrel and = inaccuracy.
Check the stock ferrule to make sure it is firmly seated. Loose = inaccuracy
I had a Garand with a MW of 6+ that consistently shot 3.5" groups at 100 yds. There was no reason to so that except that everything fit well.
All these don't guarantee you a great shooter but put you well along the way.
After that, its all appearance & what's pleasing to the eye! Your rifle will need some cleaning & the stock some TLC. Many people like boiled Linseed Oil for the stock but I prefer Tung oil (Formby's) It dries much faster, goes on easier & has the same look after a few coats.
Kirk, thank you for the great tips. I bought a Garand from Orion7 and am extremely happy with it. Knowing what you just noted here will keep those things in my mind as I maintain it.
Now that was good information. I am looking at CMP to purchase a Garand. My problem is, I have to order one. To far to drive. Anyone have suggestions when I order one??? Can I do any kind of requesting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk
I am also looking for a shooter.
bigdog
If you want a shooter then order at least a service grade. And request a new CMP stock. They fit tighter and the one i shoot shot well after a 5 shot sight in. My rifle SA5844757 shot 9 10 9 9 10 8 8 7 10 10 out of the box at 200yds. 90 out of 100 after almost 10 years of not competing needless to say me very happy. My first and only M1 at the time was a match rifle given to me and I never shot it that well. Old rifle ME 2 TE 3.5 stock loose, new rifle ME .5 TE 1.75 tight fitting CMP stock. I have not checked all of kirks suggestions but that's the fun of fine tuning your rifle. Just a note if you get a USGI stock you can always buy a competition stock and return it to original when not shooting. I always ask CMP for USGI wood as I have 3 nice new CMP stocks that I use/and will use for comp. Hope this helps.
Order a "M1 Garand, Service Grade Special", either an SA or HRA. See M1 Garand Sales, Item nos. RM1HRASSP or RM1SASSP. They are $895 but worth every cent. You will get a great shooter & more. I have examined dozens of these rifles and typically, all the metal is Perfect - As New, i.e., finish is 99%; no wear on parts; everything just as it was made. What's more, the metal I've seen is "Correct", i.e., all SA or all HRA parts. The stock is new production walnut stocks that fit well. They have just one coat of oil so you will have to add several more to make them perfect. Alas, they do not come coated with cosmoline so you miss that part!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdog
What are you getting with a "correct grade" and "collector grade". Are these WWII era with correct original barrels ect?
Corrects are either correct as CMP received them and are essentially a new or nearly so rifle. Parts should be as sent from the supplier at the Armory or HRA. All walnut stocks and metal perfect, generally.
Collectors are correct and unmodified by CMP. The Collectors are genuinely original. Most are beyond belief with perfect metal and nearly perfect wood. They will be all walnut and with metal is like a new finish, but fromthe 1950s. These show up from time to time, but are sometimes so new that they come in their own boxes from the factory or Armory complete with powdery dessicant that was applied to prevent rust. They are higher even than regular collectors, some saying they went for $3K plus. There are even consecutively numbered pairs to be offered in their original packing. They expect $20K plus a pair of those, according to some on other boards.
The Corrects are great rifles. Get one of those and look forward to years of great shooting. I have about six at present and would have more if I could get to Anniston again. I bought an almost new M1D last trip and my wife says no more for while.
The Service Grade Specials I have seen at the South Store have been late production (1955-56) rifles in the 5.4M, 5.79M &, I believe, 5.8M s/n range. Nothing from WWII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greystone45
The HRAs i got were 2 x 5.5, 3 x 5.6 and SAs 5 x 5.8 all in great and some in almost new cond. but 2 SAs had new CMP wood. To get WWII Garands I order Winchesters. (may be repeating myself here) but I did get two WWII SAs when I ordered service grade but one of those had the new wood I mentioned. Granted It is just the receiver and maybe 13 to 14 parts that are WWII. It is just luck of the draw with CMP but all good rifles so far.
IMHO.....just go with a "service grade or above" for a shooter.
In the end: "It's YOUR money.....choose how YOU want to spend it."
From an old post of mine.....
Aloha, MarkQuote:
When I get my new (old) CMP rifle..........I strip it down for a good cleaning and inspection. Bad parts are replaced and I lube it up (while reassembling it).
This might help.......
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/m1.htm
Next, I take it to the range with some known good quality M2 ball ammo with known functioning clips (USGI is preferred) and do some slow and rapid fire. Your ammo and clips are very important when testing a new (old) rifle. Believe me........I have been fooled in the past.
So then.........IF I have a problem (not related to SAFETY)......I'll note it or take immediate action on it.
When I return home...........I remember to look up my "problem."
http://m1-garand-rifle.com/garand-troubleshooting.php
also
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/tm9-1275.htm
Sometimes I need to order parts..........so be it. Hey, the rifle has been sitting for maybe 50+ years. A new set of replacement springs might just be an easy fix.
If you can not get to the store, I would go with the SA or HRA Service grade Specials. There is no gambling with what you will get on these rifles. New Old Stock rifle with new manufactured walnut stock and stock metal.
I ordered two SA SG Specials. Both had no wear that I could see.
Good luck
These are stunning rifles. Best deal at CMP, IMO. If you can find a great USGI stock, it will equal a collector grade.Quote:
Originally Posted by hamour
Recently, the CMP has been shipping a high % of Service Grades with garish "Orange" beech wood stocks. Check the CMP website for posts about these: M1 Garand - CMP Forums
If I were ordering one, I'd specify "walnut" rather than "orange. While the Army used beech stocks in late production rifles, the color was golden or gold-red, not orange.
A lot of guys have specified walnut, and still received birch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk
You kept saying new walnut stocks but my CMP new stocks were the very light beech and try as a could can not get them darker. https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s092-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s091-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s085-1.jpg as you can see the metal is great (like brand new) but the wood is hideous. I did buy two very nice walnut stocks from James river manufacturing to replace two of the birch stocks that I tried staining and was not satisfied with the results.
CMP has stated that any WW2 rifle in original, mint, correct condition--will go directly to auction. Way out of my price range. Look at what they're getting for the NOS post war M1s' with the VCI paper on the muzzles. As far as I've been able to find out, they haven't found any WW2 Garands like that yet. Check this post war rifle out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk
M-1 Garand SA Unissued SN- 5869677 Auction
Charlie
checked it out ...............that's just crazy IMHO. I could have the 7 rifles (my picture above) and 12 ammo cans of 30 06 for the price of one rifle??? And I can shoot and enjoy every one of them. And as you can see a couple of them are about 90% metal and 90% wood finish and 95% matching parts. the ones with the CMP birch stocks are 100% metal, and all correct for the rifle, virtually brand new apart from the stock. I guess we all collect for different reasons.
I looked at the pics again and the rifles look better in person but may be between 80-90% on the wood(the two just above the birch stock in the picture). But the point I'm trying to make is still relevant.
What grade rifles did you get with the beech/birch wood, Sgs', or SG Special? Great looking rifles you have there!Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN
Charlie
Service grade. I started asking for USGI wood and did not care if the wood was field grade as long as it wasn't the new stuff. I have 4 of the new ones and will swap when I go shoot for competition. My field grade purchases all came with original stamped wood heavy in oil and dings and scratches, and I love them!
Do you do any trigger work on your rifles? I have a spare trigger group that I tuned up, and completely got rid of the "creep" as well as lightening the pull. Whenever I go to the range I take it with me and install it on whatever I'm shooting that day. That way I can keep the rest of my rifles with un-messed with triggers. What you said about your FGs, is what makes Garand collecting a little little different than collecting in general, IMO. My favorite FG, actually a Rack grade, I picked up at NS the same way. Soaked in cosmoline, had all the dents and dings--and it's my favorite shooter. All the imperfections are part of the rifles history.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN
Charlie
Charlie59 - I have just gotten my M1 from the CMP and your comment about the spare trigger group really interests me. Where do you recommend I look for the trigger group; and what did you do to tune it up? I would like to get rid of all that creep and lighten the trigger pull too.
I needed a trigger group to make a rifle all correct, so I got one at a gunshow, and ended up with a spare. If you are only going to have one Garand, it might not make financial sense to have a spare. I have several rifles I like to shoot, and don't want to alter them, so I use the one group with whatever particular rifle I take to the range. Here are a couple pics. First off, many rifles shoot fine with the trigger group they come with. But, some of mine have excessive "creep", so by honing them I not only get rid of that, I lighten the pull, too. Some guys also polish the sear, to a mirror like finish. I have had good enough results using a fine stone, and just go back and forth, until I get a trigger pull I like. Just be sure your stone only touches the spurs on the hammer, and the rear of the housing-like in my pic. The other pic shows how the sear wears from the hammer spurs. You might want to check around, I'm sure others do trigger jobs slightly different than I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by escondido
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6/fb1500-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6/fb1503-1.jpg
Charlie
Thanks for your reply. I don't want to alter the original even though it is a late 1950s manuf. Will probably look for a new trigger group at the next gun show.