Mint Cond. Late Winchester M1 Carbine - NO Reserve : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
Printable View
If it were mint, it would be dated and marked on the end of the barrel by the front sight. Also should have a FLAT, W.R.A marked bolt...at least mine does..and it came home that way in 1945 with My great Uncle.....
This one looks to have been re barreled, and has the Korean War rear sight on it, not the original WW2 sight. The WW2 rear sight had a flatter type knob, deep knurling on it. Front band looks Korean, and I do believe it should have the deeper fish belly stock. This one looks like a rework, and I would be real suspect of the Winchester stamping and proofs. These do not look correct...Buyer Beware on this one....
Will try and post pics of mine, if You are interested. I know mine to be 100%, as My Great Uncle George dragged this one from the US to all over Europe during WW2. Brought it home in His duffel bag and passed it on to Me when he passed away. Even have some pics of Him holding it while riding in a Jeep in Germany...
We'd love to see the pics of your "original" carbine!! Wish I had one. In any case, here some info from my reference material:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk
Type II and Type III adjustable sights were both used in late Winchester production for late 6m - early 7m production numbers. This one is a bit early for a type III, but it is a WWII rear sight. Also, late Winchester barrels were only marked "W" and no date. If you mean "fish belly" to be the commonly called "pot belly" stock, the Type V stock was not used on Winchesters until the 7m production range, and I believe only on the M2. and post war for rebuilds of M1 and M2s. As for bolts, Winchester started using round bolts marked "W" in the 5.6m production range. I'm sure anything I have wrong here will be corrected by the "gurus," but this is the info I get from both Ruth in "War Baby!" and Riesch in "...Wartime Production."
Puking Chicken, Ey. Well Not everyone is perfect. Give me a day or so and I will get them posted..Not a big fan of War Baby. Have found a few in consistencies in the reference, Have not checked out the other. All I know is mine IS an Original with a proven provenance, and that one on GB has some issues....
Yes, but as with all carbines, parts and markings changed as production progressed. Early carbines are quite different than late carbines, as you know. I was only addressing the parts on this 6.4m rifle on GB. As for reference material, they all have errors to some extent. I don't know what SN yours has, but unless it's a late mid 6m range SN, it's hard to compare the two. As for the "Puking Chicken," may I assume that you served in another "less noteworthy" airborne unit? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk
Yeuup. To The Tune of 264 Jumps. A REAL Airborne(not Air Mobile) unit. Started out in 10th SFG in Bad Tolz, and Then Moved to 1SFG in Fort Lewis. Spent 22 Years. Also spent 2 years and 62 Jumps with the IDF. Had to Pay My dues...List of Ops to long and to classified to discuss...Didn't You Guys Invade Iraq by Bus in 1991? I had been there for a bit....
Mohawk. I salute you..and Im glad your carbine has no issues..I have 5 with no issues, I hate issues...Israeli IDF?
Hawk, thank you for your sevice.
I beleive G26ster's service to our country was in a slick over RVN.
No need to question any vets service or unit here.....Frank
If I'm not mistaken Win never did the P in a circle on any of their guns. The sight and oil hole trigger housing was being used in the 5.6 range. Winchester mixed sight types as they became available/not availible. The type two band has a suspect color and is not a Winchester band. As noted before, Win barrels in this period had no dates.
On the carbine in the auction the rear sight is the correct WWII vintage sight for the serial number. The undated WRA barrel is also correct, as is the round bolt. WRA didn't use "fish belly" stocks either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk
On a seperate note... 264 jumps is impressive. I've done just over that as MFF, CE, O2 jumps, most of them at night.
Dave, the circled P was only used by WRA very early.
Quite an impressive record!! I was addressing the the 101st WWII history, not my own, and of course my "less noteworthy" comment was in jest, as I'm sure your comments are too. I'm too old to be up to speed on the modern operations. Oh, and a big thanks for your service :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk
Puking chicken is kind of like the Germans called the waffenamt.."Bankrupt vulture"..
FWIW, my mint original 6.60 WRA has a "W" stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip.
My Dad, a retired Lt. Colonel with the 101st, tells me that their emblem was often "lovingly" referred to (especially by members of the 82nd ABN) as the "puking buzzard". He had a name for the 82nd but it escapes me, can anybody help me here?
:D
"All American" I believe was what the 82nd was called
We used to provide communications for the 101st up at Tuy Hoa.
Dad led a support battalion of the 101st ABN, 1st Brigade Seperate in the An Khe area of the RVN in mid 1965.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
I'm pretty sure he referred to the 82nd ABN in different terms than you described but he said it was all in fun.
Maniac, it seems you want to be cute by half.
If your referance to the 82nd. Abn. (AA) is the in**** of the Div. being called the "African Airborn". I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.....Frank
You're reading waay to much into this, Frank, time to chillax.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankderrico
It wasn't that, but I'll ask him when I fly to Cali next weekend with my daughter for spring vacation. He is very proud to have served with the 101st but he was laughing when he was talking about Puking Buzzards. To this day he cherishes the esprit de corps among those he served with as well as all who served nobly.
Charlie, I apoligize for thinking of the derogetory term some used refering to the 82nd. back in the 60's & early 70's.
Please thank your father for me for his service. He and you can be proud of his service during a difficult time.....Frank
The 82nd wasn't in Vietnam at that time. I believe that some 82nd elements came over late in the war, but not sure. You would see guys with 82nd combat patches from time to time. The 101st was very active in the Tuy Hoa area north of us and you would have an officer (Usually a Captain) down begging for some better radios and offering AKs as trade bait. Apparently they were asking a lot out of their PRICK 25s. Not to get into the 101st/82 rivalry, but the 101st was an elite unit and very good at what they did. The 82 was looked down upon by soldiers I met because of all of the CIBs that were handed out from the Dominican operation.
I was there much later than you Dave. In 68-71, the 101st moved much further north, and took over most operations from Hue to just south of Quang Tri in Northern I Corps, along with the 5th Mech at Quang Tri and the ARNV Marines. The ARVN Marines had Aussie advisors, who had nerves of steel! I flew gunships in support of all of them, and also in support of SF teams from CCN (Command & Control North) and the 75th Rangers. All units performed in an exemplary manner. One of the biggest problems all units faced in Northern I Corps was resupply. Everything was shipped in from way down South, and by the time it reached its destination up North, half of it was gone! As for the 82d, I'm not familiar with their AO in RVN.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Yes, the 101st cut off the NVA west of Hue. I was in the 5th Mec before I went to RVN and it was the sorriest outfit in the Army. I was just out of good Infantry Basic at Ft Ord and we came out good soldiers, the 5th was trained with very poor cadre and had been stripped with most good NCOs sent to RVN. They were some sorry soldiers, sloppy out of shape. When I got there I would hit the deck and do 40 before going to sleep, the other guys thought I was nuts. The Div was rated as not combat ready in early 66. Anyway I always said that when the 5th shows up in RVN we'll know we lost the war, and sure enough that was right. I'm not sure the 82 as a unit ever went to RVN either, some elements may have gone later. They always guarded the 82 for Stateside emergencies. Resupply was a serious problem because they had so many support elements sitting on their axxes that the good stuff left for them. We ordered 70+air conditioner units for use in the big $1M VHF and UHF radio trucks we had all over II Corps as the heat was killing those radios (and truck batteries too)
by the time they arrived fully half were gone and all the local Viet bars suddenly had A.C. Sometimes we couldn't get any American beer or cigarettes (1966). Ever smoke Bastos or drink Korean Star beer? Up in the highlands by the time you were there, I'd bet HWY 19 was like running a gauntlet up to An Khe and Pleiku.
Funny, I was in the 5th Mech at Ft. Carson in '63. 1/61st Inf. Got levied to Korea, so yeah drank plenty of Korean beer. Mostly OB beer :madsmile: Our resupply in RVN was so bad, we "willed" Nomex flight suits and gloves to each other. Went thru the year with 2 flight suits and one ratty pair of Nomex gloves, with most of the finger tips missing. But, I've been told every motor scooter rider in Saigon had them :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH