Thoughts on the Huber Concepts trigger?

I have two commercial rifles that have beautiful triggers.
One is a Winchester Model 70 that I have had since 1984 and that had the factory trigger reworked by a very competent gunsmith. It brakes at a very clean and creep free 3#.
The second is a Remington 700 that has a Timney trigger on it that is absolutely wonderful. It is just above 2# and is just like the proverbial glass rod.
All this to get to my point. I am going to bed the action on my Long Branch with Accra Glass Gel and Free float the barrel. I have done a few 700s and two Model 70s so I hope the Enfields aren't much more difficult.
I would really like to improve the trigger to as close to the above rifles as possible and the Huber trigger seams to be the best way but I would like to get some feedback on them from some one who has some knowledge on them.
Thanks for any help.

Rumpelhardt

I am hoping that you will get some responses to this thread as I am also wanting to try these triggers out.

Paul

Same meat, different gravy but I know someone who set about putting a fine but adjustable No8 trigger mechanism into his L39 target rifle. At the time I wondered whether it was just a waste of an L39. I don't know how he eventually got on but the last I saw, he'd got around to fitting the No8 fore-end too.

What do you hope to achieve by fitting a Huber Concepts trigger to a Lee Enfield rifle?

The Huber Lee Enfield trigger is a very simple piece of gear, it mounts in exactly the same way as the standard trigger - its advantage is that it offers a smoother pull off and adjustment for creep. I fitted one to an AIA M10 rifle in an effort to improve the poor trigger experience, was very happy with the improved "smoothness"; but also very disappointed in that it did NOT significantly lighten the trigger pull.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/Smle13-1.jpg
If you would be comfortable using your rifle with the trigger always held back to the beginning of the second stage, the Huber design might be just dandy for you. If not, consider that the first stage of the issue trigger is there for a very good reason - to provide enough sear engagement to positively prevent accidental discharge should something jar either the trigger or the bolt and/or cocking-piece.

Examine the image of the Huber trigger and you can see that it has only one "hump" and it is screw-adjustable. By turning in the screw, the sear is partially depressed, and held in that depressed position. If the adjustment goes far enough to produce a short, crisp pull, sear engagement is very small and a slight disturbance of the trigger or bolt/cocking-piece can allow the sear nose to disengage from the cocking-piece and let the striker fall. If the adjustment is set to allow enough sear engagement for safety, the pull will be neither short nor crisp.

The Winchester 70 and Remington 700 triggers are both "propped sear" designs where the angled surfaces of the sear and cocking piece work to force the sear down while the trigger props the sear sear up to allow plenty of sear engagement while enabling a short, crisp single-stage pull.

Attachment 22419
Winchester 70 trigger is a classic and very simple propped-sear design.

I'm thinking along the same lines that if the original ain't broke, then why fix it? You can get near perfect trigger pull-off by polishing the axis pins, the trigger bent on the sear with an up and down motion with the finest emery stick and the same motion up and down (.... NOT across....) the two sear bents of the trigger. Same again AROUND the rounded nose of the sear and importantly up and down the sear bent of the cocking piece. I detailed all of this in an article a few years ago.

Pull off weight is altered by the angle of the nose of the cocking piece and just a minute of angle makes all the difference. The two distinct pull-offs are adjusted by the upper and lower bents on the trigger.

But the BIGGEST and BEST improvement you can make is to make sure that the cocking piece is TIGHT on the striker. Even the slightest movement will ensure a sloppy trigger job.

I dispute that one of these special triggers will give a better trigger job than a properly set-up trigger job on a No4 by a properly adjusted Armourer. Just try my No4T. I told this to Jim Samson who was fitting the No8 trigger mech to his L39.................... That's only my experience though

"..by a properly adjusted Armourer. "
I expect you mean one needs an expert, with expertise. That's a rather difficult component to find these days, Peter

Thanks guys. Sounds like there could be some safety concerns so I will save my money.
I don't find the two stage pull at all objectionable though I would have liked to have lightened it up some. I'll read your article Mr. Laidler and see about smoothing things up a bit.

A single stage trigger on a cock on close design which is also operated quite vigorously seems less than ideal. Especially if you've some degree of bolt "slop" in the action. Might be OK for gentle benchrest use, but that's not really the L-E's forte.

I've tried the Huber and the CanWest, and I'm 99% with Peter, the 1% being that the after markets have their place. I always did like the enfield two stage trigger but wanted smoother and lighter, much lighter. I discovered eventually that even a modicum of attention lightens the weight and smooths it out like you wouldn't believe, so in the end this is my preference now.
The Huber did smooth out the pull, somewhat, and was only a decent improvement if I compared it to the roughest enfield one. The weight stays the same of course because the spring remains the same. If the spring pressure was lighter I think the Huber would be a pretty slick thing to use, but I never tried that mod.
The CanWest trigger for enfields is an awesome unit to use, I fitted the target model, which is essentially the same as their hunting one but without the long pull through after release, to an ishapore 2a .308, and with no regrets. It's up there with the best aftermarket trigger imho, can be tuned very light as well as smooth, and at the range its like using a delicate light switch, one touch and off she goes. It did reduce my group diameters a lot. I acknowledge that while the trigger helped me there , it is essentially compensating for my poori-sh aiming and let off skills, rather than being a magic bullet that everyone should own. It is a sweetheart though to have in an old military rifle.
The Canwest is a little narrow box that fits in where the sear is/was and the drawback for enfielders is that it requires slight mods to the rifle; ie a hole needs to be drilled through the recoil lugs so that a pin will anchor it in place, and the other mod is that the fore end wood has to be cut through internally in the fashion of a No4Mk2 to accommodate the unit. Accompanying that is the need then to run a bolt across the fore end as for a no4 mk2 to take the place of the restraining strap no1's and no4 mk1's are fitted with. Other than that fitting it is dead easy if you're slightly handy. If you're making a balls out target rifle, its a winner, if you're making less than that I would experiment with tuning the stock trigger first. If you don't like the results then the modified parts are the ones you're replacing anyway.
just my 2 cents
Huber and Canwest are both listed in enfield resource.com, although canwest hides here; Welcome to Lee-Enfield Rifles

Yep........., after reading all that I'm a firm believer in that if it ain't broke, then don't fix it

I must admit, I can't see the point of after-market triggers at all. Enfields (No1, No3 & No4 action) with standard triggers were used by many of the world's leading target shots up until the 1980s, and hence the triggers clearly do not inhibit top-class shooting (I have the rifle which won the 1990 Commonwealth games shooting at 900x and 1000x - its a completely bog standard Envoy with a Madco barrel screwed in). I note that no commercial hunting version of an Enfield (Parker Hale, Lee Speed, etc) has ever had a replacement trigger mechanism fitted - other than the modification needed for a tang safety interrupter.

The standard Enfield trigger can be fine-tuned to practically any desired effect, if necessary. I've got a couple of P14 target rifles with after-market triggers, and they don't appear to be in any way superior to identical rifles that have simply had their military triggers/ sears slightly polished up.

I like the Huber Concepts triggers but I dont think the basic design of the Enfield trigger lends itself to any type of aftermarket gizmo. As Peter said best left alone. My Huber triggers are on model 98 Mausers and also Springfields. That's where they shine. No polishing and fussing around, just install, adjust and you've got a light single stage trigger for about 20 minutes work. These are on sporting rifles. My Milsurps have issue triggers on them and some are worse than others but I'm not into shooting coyotes and groundhogs at 700 yds or entering some military match competition with these rifles. They are simply my "fun guns".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

I must admit, I can't see the point of after-market triggers at all.

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On Enfields or most any other milsurp bolt rifle, I don't either. However, for uniformity, I've converted my AR platform rifles to two stage triggers/FCGs. Even the USMC is allowing the Geissele aftermarket trigger for combat operations, so... (SSF model- "go fast" is still single stage, BTW, which is a useful "feel" difference)

geissele.com
Never did understand the appeal of a single stage trigger, especially when it's uber light.

I have noticed that if I shoot one of my other rifles before shooting one of my Enfields that it takes me a few shots to adjust to the Enfields trigger but that has everything to do with the weight of pull difference not going from a single stage to a two stage trigger. This is even more apparent if I start out shooting my Remington.

That makes your task rather easier, as you can adjust the let off weight of the standard two stage trigger/ sear assembly by following Peter Laidler's instructions from previous threads. I don't know if it's in his collection of articles or stickied links, but it's worth a look.

There is a small section regarding the trigger in " Target Rifle Shooting" by Magor EGB Reynolds and Robin Fulton page 64.

Like most here I,ve never had any probs with the trigger, but if anyone is looking at doing something like the one below with a canjar trigger then please dont do it to a nice original No4, as i,ve said in previous posts there are thousands of No4,s out there that were sporterized, drilled and tapped etc, and these can make excellent building blocks for project rifles.

I ve had this a long time and never got round to doing anything with it. Apart from the obvious you can see the limited striker travel when cocked and also the the work on the cocking piece.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture254-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture255-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture256-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture260-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture263-1.jpg
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I put one of the two-stage Huber's in my Miltech Mauser KAR98k as i was really struggling with the original trigger. It felt very inconsistent and i was never really sure when it was going to break, each shot seemed different and it was starting to induce flinch..

On that install, the gunsmith needed to remove a little wood in the trigger well to fit the trigger - not a major issue as it was not an original stock but it may not be something you'd want to do if you had a valuable, all original rifle?

This is the one I had put in:

http://www.huberconcepts.com/Mauser_...eplacement.htm

The trigger feels much more consistent than the original and has really helped improve the feel of the rifle, the confidence I have in it and the accuracy that I can achieve. On the first stage pull you can feel the internals working which I did find a little odd at first but once used to it - I like the trigger.

I have not had any problems with safety - my gunsmith would not have let the rifle out of his workshop if he wasn't 100% satisfied that the rifle was safe to use.

Would I put one in an Enfield?

To be honest, I've never had the kinds of issues with my Enfields that I had with the Mauser so the question has never arisen. But I'm glad I put it in the KAR98k

Well I do think that when I get another remington 700 I'll try one of the Huber two stage triggers for that rifle. The X-Mark Pro crap Remington uses now is pure junk. The "unsafe" trigger that served faithfully for about 50 years was miles ahead.

Now that I'm on a real computer, let's see if these links below will work for those that haven't searched out Captain Laidler's articles in the sticky area of the L-E forum header. ( Quite frankly, I just scan the "new posts" anymore and don't much utilize the specific forums.)

The Trigger Pull-Off - Part 1

The Trigger Pull-Off - Part 2

;)

Hi BigDuke6, are those canjar triggers still being made for enfields? Thats a nice installation you've got there, and I agree 100%, there are a piles of enfields out there for projects that mean an original rifle doesn't get used up.

RJW,

I dont know much about them and as for them still being made I wouldnt have a clue, Dont know who did the installation, but it works well, I tested the rifle when I first got it ( 7.62) and was very acurate even with me behind it.