Mauser sniper rifle

New to this forum and could do with some advice- have tried elsewhere but not much help. I recently bought a scoped mauser rifle for running dear target shooting, complete with everything - brass, heads, gauges, custom dies and even a kg of unopened powder. I paid about $700 for the lot.It originally was brought to the UK by a retiring army officer who had seen out his service in India, but had also seen active service in Belgium. It was bought by the previous owner some time ago when it was rebarrelled to 7x57 by a good gunsmith. It shoots superb. The scope is marked with a + followed by blc zielvier and a serial number. It is 4x (about) and has a sunshade fitted. The mounts are double clawed and have a gap so that the iron sights can be used. The front mount is on the bell of the scope. The receiver appers to be a military k98 but most of the markings have been carefully removed, though part of one can be seen under the front mount, on the triger, bolt and on the receiver under the woodwork. Loads of rough machining marks under the wood. Is it the remains of a sniper rifle or a fake?

Without pictures it's hard to say. Could be a pre-war German sporting rifle, a lot of these were set up in the manner you describe.

Thanks for reply. My initial thoughts were that this must be a commercial piece but the marks on the scope appear to be military though I could be wrong. One person has said that blc is a military mark but someone who knows a lot about scopes told me that they were also used on commercial scopes. I will try and take some photos today and attempt to post them. Any idea why anyone would remove the marks? Can not imagine this being done by military as it seems to have been carried out too well.

Sounds like a typical German hunting rifle based on a 98 system. The system could be ex-military or commercial. To decide which, photos of any and all remaining markings a required.

"Zielvier" was a Zeiss scope type, and blc was the wartime code for Carl Zeiss in Jena. So it sounds like you may well have a sniper scope, but this does NOT prove that you have a sniper rifle - the scope could have been fitted onto a commercial hunting rifle, post-war.

Pictures please!

Patrick
:wave:

I have taken some pictures but they are too large to post. Anyone know how I can get around this?

upload the images to a host site like imagevenue.com. then post the clickable thumbnailed images

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22_154lo-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22_953lo-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22_179lo-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22_953lo-1.jpg
These are some of photos, rifle has sporter stock and trigger guard.

At this moment, the photos seem to confirm my first impression: this is a commercially made hunting rifle on a 98 system with a wartime-manufacture Zeiss "Zielvier" scope. If markings have been removed, this suggests a post-war conversion of a military rifle.

The trigger assembly shows the number 29. This would be the last two digits of the original number. Look for numbers in other positions - bolt body, bolt shroud, trigger guard etc. etc. A correct German rifle should have the full serial number on the barrel, receiver and bolt body. Since the scope mounting covers the markings on the barrel ring, the gunsmith should have remarked it in another location - I have seen one where the number had been restamped on the bottom of the barrel, and was only visible if the system was removed! Incorrect, but even in the land of DIN, practice does not always come up to theory!

Look everywhere, and note what you find.

Patrick
:wave:

Looks like a military triggerguard and trigger, marked "29". Looks a lot like a converted military Mauser to me. Very nicely done, as well. Is it marked Mod98 or perhaps Gew98 on the left of the receiver? Look very closely. Good luck.

http://img169.imagevenue.com/gallery...3198241-44.php

Some more photos - click on link. It appears that most of marks have been removed, though it does appear to have some military marks and it just too rough in places to be commercial. The receiver does not have any serial number visible and the bolt has some numbers on the top of the handle where it joins the bolt.
Previous owner has said that when he bought it the barrel was in a poor state and he had it rebarreled. He does say that it had already been rebarreled to 7x57 by the previous owner (the officer). Apparently he hated the Germans, but that is another story!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

A correct Germanhttps://www.milsurps.com/autolinker/images/link6.gif rifle should have the full serial number on the barrel, receiver and bolt body.

---

Well. that point has been cleared. The conversion was not done by a gunsmith in Germany. The barrel and receiver ring are marked with the British nitro proof (BNP) and the caliber. The finish appears to show bluing over rust pits.

My guess at present: a beater 98 that was rebarreled to make use of the action. Scope looks good, for its age, and is in much better condition than the pitted action. So IMOH most definitely never a sniper, just a good scope fitted to a run-down 98 that was sporterized, and rebarreled by heaven knows who in the UK. If it shoots well, be happy and leave it as it is. Collector value of the rifle is nil. But the scope would be worth 3-4 hundred over here, if the optics are still good.

Patrick
:wave:

Hi Patric, my feelings the same, though I was told by the previous owner that the rifle had no proof marks until he had it rebarreled and refinished in ealy eighties. I am trying to remove the scope bases at the moment and refitting with weaver type mounts - the bases are soldered and screwed in place. I presume the bases will add to the second hand value of the scope?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jerry10

I presume the bases will add to the second hand value of the scope?

---

Most definitely so!

Not so sure I would add Weaver bases to anything I own. I would leave that rifle alone. It has a history to it, putting on Weaver bases makes it a bubba-gun. Certainly reduces its value by half.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Certainly reduces its value by half.

---

Half of what? Half of 1000, or half of 100? Could you please be a bit more specific about that? But I agree with leaving it alone if it is a good shooter.

It is a very good shooter, is capable of just over 1" at 100yds with a five shot group from a rest. For a rifle this age, I find that surprising. Action has been bedded and barrel free floated, the loading had been given to me by previous owner. For a military trigger it breaks well. Beneath the front mount was a serial number (still trying to remove solder with wick to get a better look). There is a 3 letter code, but does not match the scope (blc) - looks like byf, but could be wrong. Does seem to be made from different makers' parts.
I am putting on a period scope, a nice Pecar from just after the war and I will machine the new bases to line up with the existing screw holes - not sure of thread, but I will make some up on my lathe. I am an engineer by trade and I will not be attacking it with pry bars! My machine shop is extensive - I make model steam engines for a hobby.
I plan to recoup quite a bit of the cost of the rifle with the sale of the scope and mounts. The main reason I asked about the rifle was because I did not want to damage any history. With it being a made up piece, I am now happy to split it back into the component parts.
Many thanks for all the help.
One final thing, anyone know anything about French sniper scopes?

Weaver bases do not add value to a nice period Mauser rifle. I can not guess at the value of this rifle until all of the conversion work is completed. Not sure this work will raise the value of the rifle. I am certain things are very different in the UK. Supply and demand are certainly different. A nice Mauser sporter is worth $750 and more here. A cheap bubba-gun can be had for $125. and up. I see nice FN 1960's Mausers going for $700-$900 at the big shows. Again, supply and demand.

Hi Steve, Not planing to sell rifle, just the scope and mounts. The rifle will be used for target shooting and will not be sold on in my lifetime. The bore really is mirror and I will only be firing in the region of 100-200 rounds a year, so it will see me out. I was only making sure that I would not be damaging anything that may have had history to it - I did not want to break up the scope from an original receiver, which this clearly is not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jerry10

There is a 3 letter code, but does not match the scope (blc) - looks like byf, but could be wrong. Does seem to be made from different makers' parts.

---

I would never have expected them to match. Rifles and scopes were made by completely different companies. blc was the manufacturer's code for Zeiss, Jena. byf was the code for Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf.

I was interested to see Steve's comments about value, as seen from the US. The market is completely different here. There is a glut of sporterized military rifles, and they bring very little. Licensing regulations mean that you don't want to block your licence (and your gun cabinet) with a very ordinary sporter when that is going to stop you getting the all-original, all matching, highly desirable service rifle with a perfect bore that you are just bound to see a week later! (Murphy's law).

So curiously enough, although Steve does not agree with what Jerry is doing, it would make perfect sense here to sell the "Zielvier" with bases to a collector and fit another scope, if you have one available. And a Pecar is a perfectly acceptable "period" scope for this rifle.

BTW, it's good to see another model engineer on this forum. As one who has a well-equipped model engineering workshop, I can reassure Steve and any other worriers that if Jerry can make model steam locos, then he has the know-how and equiment to do a proper job with the scope mounting.

Patrick
:wave:

In the USA, we have a glut of nice Mausers cut up, cut down and generally ruined rifles. They are common at all of the gunshows. I see Weaver bases on nice rifles all of the time. Basic hunting rifles, not keepers, just cheap hunters. When I see a nice keeper in Europe I am surprised by the use of Weaver anything. I guess this one turns out just fine. No flames intended, by the way. Happy hunting.