, and which model enfield it applies to?
... and does the same question apply to poms being called 'tommies' in ww2?
Thanks, it seems every kiwi and his dog calls them long toms and I'm well and truly mystified? cheers
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, and which model enfield it applies to?
... and does the same question apply to poms being called 'tommies' in ww2?
Thanks, it seems every kiwi and his dog calls them long toms and I'm well and truly mystified? cheers
MLE's
With poor memory and lack of interest to do deep research. I recall one of the guns (Artillery) built and used by the British in the Boer War Kimberly siege was named "Long Tom." Perhaps that was extended to references to long barrelled Enfield rifles.
I don't know the origin of the "long tom" nickname, but I do know the British in South Africa referred to the 155mm Boer Creusot artillery pieces as Long Tom. A mountain pass near to where I once lived is called "Long Tom" Pass and has a replica cannon at the top of the pass.
155 mm Creusot Long Tom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The MLE/MLM pre dates the cannon so I suspect that during the Boer War, the MLE/MLM were not known as Long Tom's - it's probably a later (post Boer war) "colonial" nickname
MLEs do not get called that here. It's an American invention, like Chinese food.
'Tommy' was an abbreviation of Tommy Atkins, the fictitious sample name on WW1 army recruitment forms, which in itself came from the initials T.A. of the British Territorial Army, then being sent over to help France and Belgium..... or so I believe.
I suspect a 'Long Tom' is anything longer than the norm.
Atkins is older that that, and it was called the Territorial Force in those days.
Tommy Atkins is the "hero" of a poem by Rudyard Kipling. Quoting from memory (you can google it yourself!)
"Oh it's Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy go away,
but it's "Thank you Mr Atkins" when the band begins to play!"
The poem is from 1892, but Tommy Atkins as the eternal British soldier has been traced back to the end of the 18th century! So Kipling was referring to a figure who was familiar to his readership.
Patrick
:wave:
I'm afraid that that doesn't fit the facts. As has been alluded to, the Territorial Army was not called that until 1920.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouletbill
And, again as has been said, we don't use the term Long Tom over this side of the pond.
All very interesting, the local, NZ, use of long tom only refers to the one model of enfield, odd if it was about the long rifles that preceded the 'carbine' No1 MK3.
Wiki comments;
The name Tommy for any soldier in the British Army is particularly associated with World War I. The French and the British Commonwealth armies used the name "Tommy" for the British. "Tommy" is derived from the name Tommy Atkins which had been used as a generic name for a soldier for many years (and had been used as an example name on British Army registration forms). The precise origin is the subject of some debate, but it is known to have been used as early as 1743. Rudyard Kipling published the poem Tommy (part of the Barrack Room Ballads) in 1892 and in 1893 the music hall song Private Tommy Atkins was published with words by Henry Hamilton and music by S. Potter. In 1898 William McGonagall wrote Lines In Praise of Tommy Atkins.
The paybooks issued to all British soldiers of World War I used the name "Tommy Atkins" to illustrate how they should be filled in
Its still no clearer. I bet some ol veteran would have known, we missed the last one by a couple of days, god rest his soul.
Does anyone think foriegners referring to New Zealanders as 'Kiwis' comes from the widespread use of Kiwi brand boot polish by the British army in WW1? aswell as some NZ army badges during the WW1 era featuring the Kiwi bird. I have seen a 1915 cartoon of a caricatured kiwi bird NZ soldier biting the nose of a Turk. I suppose we dont call then MLE's because thats a girls name.
"Long Tom" in these parts of the US generally refers to long barreled shotguns generally used for duck and goose hunting. Probably more common in the old punt gun days. (A punt gun is sort of a spinal mount on a low freeboard boat -Think A10, but for ducks found sitting in a flock on the water.) The term isn't common any more- at least here.
Yup, quite correct so it seems, should've thought to check out 'wiki' before tapping out an answer. I guess TA was a convenient coincidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
Probably just a generic term. In German I believe they say or used to say "Lange Hans" on occasion for things or people tall or long . IIRC the term was also applied to the 4.7" naval guns that were put on hastily fabricated steel carriages and sent out to S.A. with naval crews to counter the Boer "Long Toms". And I do believe those were one of, if the first British artillery pieces to have a steel shield for the gunners. An obvious necessity when fighting the Boers.