UK straight pull Bren?

I've been following this thread on the forum about a approved UK Spec straight pull L1A1 SLR.

L1A1 Single Shot spec?? Any ideas?

From what I can gather, the TMH and Bodies are original matched items fitted to new barrels and have modified bolts and carriers.

My question is, why can't this be done to a Bren? I know the barrel being readily removable may have a bearing but as far as I was aware, once a section 5 always a section 5.

From what i've read on the L1A1 thread, it sounds like it could be possible to use the Bren body (possibly modified by blocking the piston bore) and lower, combined with a new barrel, less gas hole and a mofdified bolt and carrier (Minus gas piston).

I peronaly dont see this as possible but I never thought i'd see a L1A1 straight pull made with original parts.

Any thoughts?

It's allready in the starting blocks as a project,but rather than a new barrel the idea is to bore out and sleeve with a donor 303 bolt action rifle barrel.
Have seen one of the L1A1's at the range and they look good although the price tag is crazy.
Also know RFD's that wouldn't touch them,same also goes for getting a sec5 dealer to do a Bren in the same manner as the L1A1.

A bit too much of a grey area for me,ATB KG

Do you think the Barrel would be pinned in place? Also had a thought about the gas cylinder, a new gas cylinder left solid and a solid regulator would also help in the right direction.

I would like to see useable Brens back on the ranges but its still too much of a gray area for me too.

Or Plan B: build a .22LR semi-auto replica?

It's worth remembering in the back of your mind somewhere that the act also gave the Home Sec. the authority the power to ban, without compensation or recourse, anything that he didn't like in the future........................... Or words to that effect

Asw I understand it, the L1A1's were 'allowed' by default really due to the fact that others like it and using components from their auto origins were already permitted.

Since the current Rt Hon Home Sec is a political animal leaning a tad more to the right than his Blair/Brown paranoid control freak predecessors, then perhaps he could possibly have a slightly more lenient attitude towards the shooting sports . Or do we presume they are all tarred by the same ACPO brush ?

Any more thoughts on a straight pull or .22 conversion, it has been a few years since this thread started and more and more straight pull conversions of other models are available? Viable? I know I would snap one up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brit plumber

Do you think the Barrel would be pinned in place? Also had a thought about the gas cylinder, a new gas cylinder left solid and a solid regulator would also help in the right direction.

I would like to see useable Brens back on the ranges but its still too much of a gray area for me too.

---

Mmmm, As the Gas cylinder is a Part of the receiver. It would have to be complete cut off. & a solid externally profiled section machined up, ALIGNED correctly. & welded in place!
I don't think that would be feasible TBH. Far too many variables involved to do that. & of course, it would add SUBSTANTIALY to the cost or remanufacture!

If this were to take off as a project that was 'Allowed' to be executed. Then I would suggest a 1/2" slot be machined the length of the gas cylinder. UNDERNEATH it. Then a length of steel bar welded at each end to retain it. The barrel would have to be pinned & welded to the receiver also. The full auto facility removed (Easily Done!) & the breech block modified along with some internal changes to the reciever. To prevent full auto parts being interchanged.
The piston extention would also have to be modified for the same reasons. (Much easier to do!)

I suspect, that the Powers that be. Would never allow such a project as a Bren LMG lookalike such as this. To even get off the ground! The SLR was a different animal. A Rifle, not a 'Machine Gun'. Anything Fullauto wise, is a very sensitive area to 'Them'!..........

I have seen that one of theHSBA has a straight pull FG 42 that is used at Bisley, how would one begin enquiring, go straight to the Right Hon Home Sec or via another route?
Build up a proposal with detail about how it could be done and not converted back?
If we don't ask, the answer will always be no :-)
GW

Straight pull FG '42's are readily available, made as single shot and not a conversion of anything in Germany. As such they are freely available in the UK if you have the authority on your licence. But, alas, a Bren gun in whatever guise, will always have BEEN a Bren gun.

What you could do is this. Learn by heart the mnemonic KISS or Keep It Simple Stupid and adhere to that principle henceforth.

Now buy a cheap deactivated Bren that by definition isn't a firearm. Then ask your local firearms people for an authority to possess a single shot rifle. Strip the Bren one stage at a time starting with the butt slide; so that the trigger mechanism is fixed at Safe and Repetition. It doesn't really matter if it changes to A too because it can't A in any case! Take the piston extension and cut it off and make good at the at the start of the ejection opening. Anything beyond that is academic now. Remove the gas cylinder and insert a solid dummy look-a-like version so that this new one is simply something that supports the soon to be dummy gas block. No need to do anything about the 'hole' to the rear of the gas cylinder. It's not a gas cylinder as such because you have removed the ACTUAL gas cylinder. (All this hole does is guide the piston back into the gas cylinder).

Make a new barrel and fit the old fittings to it. Removeable or not is a matter for you. Submit the new made gun to the HO and see what they say. You could do all that in a weekend.

Thanks Peter but not quite what I had in mind, that would just be a 10/22 in a wig.
My apologies if my query came across badly, it was a genuine one to the collective knowledge on this forum, I have looked at this thread a few times over the years, the initial comments didn't rule it out as a possibility hence the thread resurrection.

Hey, that was a serious reply to a serious question Glowworm. It really is that simple to do and that's the way to do it. Anyone could try it but the problem would be getting someone at the HO to say that this was a 'new' gun. This is how the straight pull L1A1's came about tentatively at first, refused, modified and then accepted. It is only on the back of the L1A1 success (?) story can the Bren straight pull succeed.

It will take a dealer with a bit of get-up-and-go to set about it. And finding a get up and go dealer....... that'll be another problem..........!

Thanks Peter, sorry, thought I had upset you for a moment, If there is a right way and a wrong way to read a message then you can guarantee it will be the latter, the typed response can be a little inflectionless.
I will mail you from work in a few days, we know each other, laid up with flu at the moment 😜
Regards
Robert

Nice thought Peter using a dead Bren, unfortunately it would revert to Sec5 as it started from a complete deactivated MG.

To stand any chance of a start, you would need sec1 Bren Parts kits, (do such a thing even exist). In the extremely unlikely event that you could find parts kits (Or strip Bren's abroad and import them as kits) get the green light from the HO ... and carry out Tankies suggested mods to the build, would a removable barrel be an issue, after all plenty of sec1 firearms have quick change multi cal barrels etc?

On a related topic, I have unfortunately all but given up on building a straight pull L2A1 (built on a Lithgow L1 parts kit) with a new unported heavy L2 profile barrel and L2 gas block/bipod, though all quite possible but admittedly a very expensive project, I think that what would appear to be an LMG would not go down well with the powers that be.

I wouldn't be too sure about the L1A1 straight pulls at the moment, following the Buckland debarcle. A quick look at the main 'supplier/manufacturer' will show they have been pulled from the website, spookily enough following a visit by the local finest about another issue. I think the jury is still out on the L1A1 straight pulls at the moment.

Personally I can't see how a semi auto L1A1 action can ever change into a 'new rifle'.

You've misinterpreted me Mr Clarke (your thread 14). I was simply explaining in technical speak how simple it would be to make/convert so as to be non-returnable to its former status, bearing in mind that I've had a couple of years to learn the technicalities of the inner workings of Brens.

RoyW has hit the nail firmly on the head in his para 2 of few but VERY sage words. I looked at one such straight pull L1A1 and while it was indeed a straight pull L1A1 as defined, well, let's just say that the ins and outs of the conversion such as it was might have convinced others of a less technical bent - but it didn't convince me

Sorry Peter, guess I shouldn't be sat typing away at stupid o clock! With regard to the SP L1A1's (I have two). Several companies were involved in building them a few years ago, all have now stopped, but for different reasons, non related to the L1 builds.

When the first company (Anglo Custom) approached the Home Office with a view to doing this some years back, they got permission based on Sec1 kit builds and the modifications made.The fact that Straight Pull Imbel Fals (that only lack barrel bleed after all and some even had the piston ) have been avalable in the UK since 2000 without any issue, was apparently a very convincing argument.

Now, nothing is ever set in stone regarding firearms as we well know in the UK, but SP L1's have been around in small numbers for over five years now.

These rifles are in the hands of genuine enthusiasts, who paid a lot of money and certainly won't be mucking about with them illegally, so we can only hope common sense, admittedly a very rare commodity, carrys on winning the day chaps

Ah......, that's the difference. The hand cocking, straight pull, single shot Imbel was MADE as that. Just like the identically figured L98 SA80. And unlike their big brothers, can't be made to be anything else. Unlike the ex L1A1's. But in reality, there are so few of them that have very neatly side stepped the perceived interpretation of the rules - as opposed to the literal interpretation of the rules, that there really is little or no cause for concern. Just my view of course

An interesting thread, I,ve been reading up on the Law a bit more than normal recently, (still doesn't make sense) little snippets that I've forgotten or never acknowledged are the bit's that stand out, Peter mentioned the status of a deactivated firearm and is right in saying once its deactivated it is no longer a firearm.... in fact its harder to buy an orange painted air soft than a deac, but thats the way it is.

The SP debate I can't see a problem, the thing is you need to look outside the box, Tankhunter mentioned the fact it was a Semi Auto rifle to start with and from what I was told is a lot to do with the reason we have them, 17 odd years ago L1A1's were advertised in Gunmart for £350 (sec 5).

Ship them rifle's to another country then they are what that country states they are, strip them down and you have a selection of rifle components, (no such thing as a section 5 part) so a foreign country now has a load of rifle parts, build a rifle out of them with a new barrel and do a small conversion on the bolt carrier, then they are a straight pull rifle and UK legal.

The problem lies with such persons as Roy mentions, I know some "parts" were making there way back to the UK and being re-barreled here I guess everyone was getting on the band wagon.

A lot of straight pulls out there at present, M1 carbines, M1 Garands, AK variations and other Russian rifles, to top it off we have the famous AR15........ being a previous owner of an AR15 (M4) it was a lovely rifle but in straight pull a real pain..... just my view but was very fussy on ammunition and on a cold day cocking it every round become unbearable, again just my view and the reason I sold it, give me a bolt action rifle any day, quicker to operate and easier..... and more accurate.

The problem I find is when people push there luck..... anyone in the UK would of heard of the lever release 9mm by a UK company famous for AR15's, again a nice piece of kit and it does the job but it stood out like a sore thumb..... and got noticed more for things it wasn't meant to do....

To anyone with the above then I say good luck to them and and enjoy it.....

If your looking at a straight pull then buy off the shelf, if you want a Bren Straight pull then I would do the homework, get some plans, read up on the USA closed bolt system for the parts kits and start from scratch...... and be prepared for a lot of swarf:D

You could make a new body using another method. Two side plates, top plate, barrel support, etc. Then weld them together. No gas system, no barrel nut, just press and pin the barrel in. Mount the bipod on the barrel or on the barrel support and have it fold forward under the barrel where the gas system was. No return spring or buffer, just firing pin/striker drive spring. Striker stays on the sear when the bolt is open. Mechanically there’s not much to it. CNC would make quick work of the parts, but you could make them on a manual mill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigduke6

An interesting thread, I,ve been reading up on the Law a bit more than normal recently, (still doesn't make sense) little snippets that I've forgotten or never acknowledged are the bit's that stand out, Peter mentioned the status of a deactivated firearm and is right in saying once its deactivated it is no longer a firearm.... in fact its harder to buy an orange painted air soft than a deac, but thats the way it is.

The SP debate I can't see a problem, the thing is you need to look outside the box, Tankhunter mentioned the fact it was a Semi Auto rifle to start with and from what I was told is a lot to do with the reason we have them, 17 odd years ago L1A1's were advertised in Gunmart for £350 (sec 5).

Ship them rifle's to another country then they are what that country states they are, strip them down and you have a selection of rifle components, (no such thing as a section 5 part) so a foreign country now has a load of rifle parts, build a rifle out of them with a new barrel and do a small conversion on the bolt carrier, then they are a straight pull rifle and UK legal.

The problem lies with such persons as Roy mentions, I know some "parts" were making there way back to the UK and being re-barreled here I guess everyone was getting on the band wagon.

A lot of straight pulls out there at present, M1 carbines, M1 Garands, AK variations and other Russian rifles, to top it off we have the famous AR15........ being a previous owner of an AR15 (M4) it was a lovely rifle but in straight pull a real pain..... just my view but was very fussy on ammunition and on a cold day cocking it every round become unbearable, again just my view and the reason I sold it, give me a bolt action rifle any day, quicker to operate and easier..... and more accurate.

The problem I find is when people push there luck..... anyone in the UK would of heard of the lever release 9mm by a UK company famous for AR15's, again a nice piece of kit and it does the job but it stood out like a sore thumb..... and got noticed more for things it wasn't meant to do....

To anyone with the above then I say good luck to them and and enjoy it.....

If your looking at a straight pull then buy off the shelf, if you want a Bren Straight pull then I would do the homework, get some plans, read up on the USA closed bolt system for the parts kits and start from scratch...... and be prepared for a lot of swarf:D

---

After noon Geoff, I have the paperwork recipients for both my rifles parts kits, both stating they are Sec1 rifle parts kits, with serial numbers clearly stated. Both my L1 kits came from UK sources.

I bought one kit directly and the other paperwork is a copy from the builder.

I would suggest that anyone with one of these SP types gets paperwork from the rifles retailer, stating it is a sec1 build, it might just head off trouble from the less well informed FEO.

With regard to my local Police firearms department reaction to my L1A1's and convension kit, they have never been anything but supportive and seem to find them very interesting.

John, When I mentioned parts it was more directed to the Likes of what Roy mentions, not individuals like yourself..... I was after a rifle minus its barrel a few years back but a baby and lack of funds soon seen that one out the door.

I'm all for SP's and if I ever get the conversion kit then I,ll be looking for one ...... (did I read you were abandoning a project )

Hi Geoff, Mr x certainly brought the weight of the law down on himself didn't he, bizarre way to be going on.
Rebuilt Sec5 firearms to SP status, was only one of his monumental errors in judgement!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vincent

You could make a new body using another method. Two side plates, top plate, barrel support, etc. Then weld them together. No gas system, no barrel nut, just press and pin the barrel in. Mount the bipod on the barrel or on the barrel support and have it fold forward under the barrel where the gas system was. No return spring or buffer, just firing pin/striker drive spring. Striker stays on the sear when the bolt is open. Mechanically there’s not much to it. CNC would make quick work of the parts, but you could make them on a manual mill.

---

......Even easier, why not import new-made receivers that are specified at manufacture to be "non-gas system" receivers?? Plenty FAL receivers have been made like that already.....here...Oz.....Brazil....Israel. They just leave out the (un-)machined passage for the gas piston (no hole). Usually too, they revert to using the ejector block that is designed/machined to NOT take the select-fire "auto sear"/safety-sear. Too also.....many of these were imported from their mfgr with already attached new-made barrels manufactured as such minus any gas port hole.

Awhile back, 12 years or so, they imported South African/DENEL "Galil Sporters" that were made as just that......single cocking rifles with no gas piston passage in the receiver and no-gas port barrels. Crazy stupid idea HERE, but just a data point.

-TomH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigduke6

John, When I mentioned parts it was more directed to the Likes of what Roy mentions, not individuals like yourself..... I was after a rifle minus its barrel a few years back but a baby and lack of funds soon seen that one out the door.

I'm all for SP's and if I ever get the conversion kit then I,ll be looking for one ...... (did I read you were abandoning a project )

---

Hi Geoff, I was planning and at the initial stages of a SP L2A1 project, it was going to be my next (I like a challenge) firearm.

My last one was an ex NZ Lithgow L1 build .. Anyway, now it appears to be a dead duck due to the last UK L1 builder leaving the scene. Plus the reluctance of the only L1A1 kit supplier to sell any more to the UK market, specifically sell me another Lithgow L1A1 receiver, TMH and bolt group.

I had tracked down an L2 gas block/bipod assembly plus the unique L2 carry handle, bought and restored an old spec deac L2A1 for measurements fit and finish, all that was required was a suitable barrel turned to profile (The very expensive bit)!


As said before though, I think what appears to be an LMG might just cause me to loose support from my local Firearms team, a step too far.

In fact, when I finished the deac L2 refub, my wife looked at it, shook her head and said "no way will they except one of these as a live rifle"

It would have been a cool rifle though and very accurate with the bipod and that heavy barrel. Hay ho, onto the next project..

John, Another route, albeit very expensive! Would be to obtain another already built & licenced SP L1A1 Rifle. (Aussie receiver)

Get a new barrel made to the profile of the Aussie L2. Swap Barrels & fittings over.
Reproof (Easy) & get the MINOR 'details' altered on your F.A.C.

Job Done?........ALL you have done, is Fit a new Barrel at the end of the day. Fitting a Bipod
is merely an Accessory. & after all, the Bipod WOULD indeed. Be an Aid to accurate sustained, Long Range Shooting. Yes?.......;)

Morning Mike, it did cross my mind, but as you can imagine the cost of procurement is already moving way to the right with no more being built!

A friend of mine with a Suffolk Rifles second batch example, told me he knows of another Suffolk Rifles L1 selling for £3,000, the seller apparently said "just go find another one"

Supply and demand I guess, the minister of finance will block me Mike, know matter how slick the presentation!

Maybe we could stop the thread here because a straight pull Bren (or any previous machine gun) will not happen legally in the UK. £100 towards its wasted development costs PLUS another £100 to ANY UK forces charity if it happens within the next 10 years.