BSA 1 star ** 1907 no serial # ?

Attachment 23253Attachment 23254I just bought a pair of BAS reciever today. One is a BSA Sparkbrook 1906 1 star ** which is pretty scarce and the other I bought for parts. The other, on looking it over, was to my surprise a BSA 1907 1 star **. What the heck do I have? This one is not in the only reference book I have. They, No1Mk1 star, were not produced in 1907 by BSA were they? It does not have a serial number that I can find. I ruled out the MkIII * because it has three stars. Everyone will comment about no pictures, but, I need to buy a new camera. Anyone have any thoughts?

Added bad pictures from phone. first is the Sparkbrook and the sceond is th BSA 1907 1 Star with **.

They sound like Mk1s converted to Mk3 standard. And i think i'm right insaying that the designation No.1 never happened untill the 1920s,untill that point they were Mk1, Mk2 etc.

Found a book by C. R. Stratton on SMLE (No. 1) Rifles Mk 1 and Mk 111. It states that the transition to Mk111 from Mk 1 star (*) happened in 1907 or 1908 for BSA but there is insufficient data. Serial number range T55285 and U13015. A number I did find after cleaning and a second look is 31743 (right rear side of the receiver). I know alot of these were scraped. So I think it is well worth restoring to the Mk1*** configuration when it left the service. Ditto the Sparkbrook. Both are pretty rare.

BSA made Mk I rifles for quite a time during and after 1907. At that time they used up existing stocks of bodies, they weren't going to just throw them away. Plus, I wonder how long they were kept as an offering in their commercial rifles.

I was thinking I had seen a much later Mk I*** and I did. Listed on EFD Rifles website is a 1910 BSA Mk I***, so they made them well past the start of the switchover to the Mk III. I am curious as to why your 1907 has no serial number on the body. I don't think I've seen one that was scrubbed and not renumbered on the upper right portion of the receiver ring.

I found some info. Late last year I had a very nice e-mail exchange with Geoffrey Organ over at EFD Rifles in which we were discussing what route to go in the restoration of my CR prefixed 1906 BSA/Sparkbrook Mk I***. Here's what he said about Mk I's:

"In my opinion for best value you should restore this rifle to its original MkI specification. They are by far the rarest of the SMLEs. 1906 was the last year of manufacture for the British army, although they were made up until 1910 for the dominions."

So they are known to be made up to 1910, as evidenced by the one for sale on the EFD Rifles website. Sorry to keep adding replies, but I do love the Mk I's and talking about them. So, when you go looking for parts just remember you may be fighting me for some of them :lol:

Quote:

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So they are known to be made up to 1910...

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There have been 2 or 3 1911 dated specimens show up for sale over the past few years. I've never seen one any later though.

Attachment 23285Photo of my BSA Mark 1*** dated 1906, matching barrel and bolt. all of my other Mark 1***
rifles have the original serial number lined-out and a new number with CR, ER or G as a prefix to the new serial number. Alway more difficult to find the Mark 1*** still with the original serial number.

Bear43,
Thanks for the interest. What I mean by "scraped" is that later in their life the MK1s were stripped and scraped. Not that they threw them away at the switch over to Mk111s in 1907 through 1910ish (that would not have profitted the company at all). It was probably easier to discard them than to keep them as Mk111* styles (say in the twenties). The spare parts went to originally configured Mk111 and Mk111*.
I think, in my opinion, that retro fitting them back to Mk1s is not the answer even if the receiver originally started that way. I think being true to the stampings is the way to go. I would love to have just a Plain Jane Mk1 or Mk1* to work on someday. So, for now, we have no reason to bid against each.

On restoring and configuring one, that's a tough call. I may eventually decide to retain the existing Mk III parts on my 1906, I am not sure. If I decide to go the other route then I do have all the Mk I*** parts necessary for the job. It really comes down to personal opinion in that regards. No matter what the ol' gal is going to be a bitser, I recognize that and am able to live with that. You may prefer to do it differently, and I won't tell you that is not the way to go, I'm happy you are planning to restore. My biggest thing is getting the ol' ladies serviceable again, that's the most important part.

As for scrapping the bodies, I have seen with my own eyes Mk I***'s that have been fitted with a charger bridge. So, that would lead me to believe that they only got scrapped when they were well and truly out of spec and not before, until those were declared obsolete anyway. The Brits were never prone to scrap anything out unless they had to. The Mk I***'s were declared obsolete in the 20's (I believe) so that would have been when they went off to other pastures. They are truly fascinating rifles that paved the way for the Mk III, and they are a whole lot of fun to find just for the "what the heck is that" factor when showing them to others.

RCS, here's a question for you.... On your G prefix rifle, what configuration is that one in? I've been noticing patterns wherein the CR's sport a lot of MK III parts and the ER's tend to be in Mk I*** specs. I have never seen a G prefix or an R prefix. Do you happen to have an R prefix rifle as well? I know there have been a few around here and there but I have never had the pleasure of seeing one.

My G prefix serial number is G 839, rifle is a Enfield 1904 Mark 1 *** note this is the third serial number. The rear handguard has faint marks that would indicate it was wire wrapped at some point in time. The fore-end is a later Mark 1 replacement while the butt stock is early with the single swivel screw. This rifle could have been used as a grenade rifle and since changed to the standard Mark 1***. The bolt is numbered G 837.
Alot of early Mark 1 rifles were upgraded to Mark 111 in India too.Attachment 23317

That is a very interesting rifle. I see it had an ER serial number as well. Hmmm, wonder if it was numbered with the G prefix when it was wire-wrapped... Just me thinking aloud :) Yes, many were upgraded in India and those usually have some marks to indicate that, from what little I have seen anyway.

Attachment 23318Attachment 23319Attachment 23320Attachment 23321Attachment 23322Attachment 23323Attachment 23324Attachment 23325Attachment 23326Here is a BSA 1904 Mark 1** IP upgraded to Mark 111 in 1917 the second rifle is an Enfield 1903 Mark 1**IP upgraded to Mark 111 in 1914. I think these conversions started in 1913/14.

RCS, you just made my day! I must say I am envious. Some very nice old ladies in your collection.