Now my Long Branch had drunk a glass of raw linseed oil...i have a couple of question that i couldn't anzwer reading previous threads :
1)Fore end is tight longitudinally = tight parallel to the barrel, but i have a tiny lateral play at the draws. I have to patch it to takje off this tiny play?
2) How to check the downward 3 to 7 punds pressure at the the muzzle with or without the handguard+screw fitted?
Many thanks you all,
Bow
1. This is a past thread discussing Peter Laidler's detailed description of how to fit a forend -
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....hlight=enfield
2. I would imagine that you can hold the rifle in place, use a trigger pull gauge at the muzzle and pull upwards until you see movement. I am cheap, so all I did was turn my rifle upside down on a weith the muzzle over the edge and add 1lb weights at the muzzle end until I saw movement.
If the fore-end is tight longitudinally, then that means that it IS tight between the draws and the front of the butt socket - as it should be. But after use, a gap of .010 is allowed. A bit of lateral (you do mean side to side......) is of no consequence so long as the barrel sits centrally at the muzzle end of the fore-end.
To test the 'muzzle bearing' it doesn't matter whether the handguards are fitted or not. Tighten up the flat and correctly fitted trigger guard and tighten up the screw front trigger guard. Now move.................... I've written all this up a zillion times.........., but hold the tip of the fore-end in the fingers and with the thumb, move the muzzle left and right and it should centre itself. Now lift the muzzle away from the fore-end. The weight should be between 3 and 10 lbs. But I say a MAX of 7 lbs. You MUST have the front trigger guard screw fitted
On this topic, I just finished restocking a rebuild tonight, using a second hand wood set that I patched the draws in. It went pretty smoothly, and all the bearing areas developed nicely, but at the end I found myself chasing my tail a bit to get it "perfectly" centred. As I'd pull the wood out to scrape out the knox and front of the receiver to get even bearing, I'd put it back together, and the barrel would sit over one side by 1mm or so at the muzzle, so I'd relieve the relevant draw, and perfect, the out and in again, same thing, so I'd look and relieve where the forend contacts the wrist a smidgin, and perfect, then when I was setting up the trigger I was off to the side a tiny bit again. Tiny adjustment, perfect.
Draws bear perfectly, as does the front of the receiver, and the knox, and the muzzle, is this just how it goes? I've had a couple recently just go like clockwork, and they all come out shooting well, but relatively often I find myself chasing my tail like this and I wonder if I'm missing something, or if this is how it goes?
BTW these little adjustment are just literally scrapings.
Is it possible for a correctly stocked rifles forend to come off, and go back together and be slightly different? Or does this necessarily indicate an issue?
I apologize if i hadn't find the right reply on previous posts...I have to grown more and more on my armourer skills. Many thanks!
I get to use an anecdote from my book, 'oorah,
In brief, To do a barrel test, support the (assembled )rifle up side down, have a slip of paper under the barrel between it and the wood at the tip.
Plastic bag on the end of the barrel and start adding coke cans.
In the absence of a small spring weigh machines/trigger testor or a set of weights, use cans of coke, an 8 ounce/225 ml coke can weighs just over 1/2 pound. 6 cans = 3.3 pounds which is the lower weight, 9 cans = 4.9 pounds, the upper weight for a No4 Mk1.
Check the size on the coke can cos all countries sell different sizes. Whatever size, or even if you use food cans, like baked beans, you can read the size and weight off the can, do any conversions or multiplications you need via internet weights and measures sites.
I prefer coke cans because the aluminum can weights almost nothing, whereas a steel food can might have a little weight, remember that the weight measure on the can is for the contents, not the total, hence I prefer soda cans.
Add cans to the bag until the paper slips free, now you have a decent idea of what you've got, use smaller cans if you need a more accurate measure.
I came up with this because in my whole house of stuff there's nothing here that would work for a barrel test ... except for cans of food and drink, and I figured out that many other enfielders might be in the same position.
RJW NZ : i've red today your intersting reply...tomorrow evening i bought a fish scale that i used to test muzzle weight. with some approsimation we're at 3.3 pounds. it's in the minimum required downward pressure at muzzle so i'm thinking to move it to 5 pounds that would be the happiest medium, i think but i'm a newbie as titled. in "canadian marksman" article on n.4 bedding the author says to add some shims of hard material to improve downward pressure, but i do not know if this's the correct method. i'll serch information in the forum.
thank's you all,
bow
We had a bible to use with the No4 Bow and some very strict Inspectors and examiners............ There are many people who have other ideas as to how to do most things on the rifle, to make them better or more reliable or more accurate or........ or........ Some would suggest bending the trigger guard to adjust the trigger pressures or pull off. Others suggest a better way to fit fore-ends. I always ask them why the No4T was always at its best when it was fitted up as the bible says it should be.
RJW's method of tresting the muzzle weight is priceless........ A perfect example of using and making the best of what you've got! If yours is at 3.3 pounds Bow, then you do not need to do anything else. That will ensure that vibrations are fully controlled while the bullet is in the barrel and that the barrel is correctly damped after it's left
Hi guys, I just checked the rifle I recently stocked up, and found the with the rifle horizontal, the barrel took about 4-4.5lb, to lift. With the rifle vertical it took 2 lb to lift, I'm guessing with the rifle inverted the barrel would take very little to lift away using the can method. Might be an idea to rig a pulley?
Am I right in assuming the muzzle bearing weight is taken in the horizontal position?
In theory, it should make very little, if any difference. It is the lift or bendiness of the barrel that is being tested and not the rigidity of the fore-end. It's not subject to gravity differently if it's hosizontal or vertical (well, it IS, but not measurably so.......). I've just measured a calibrated slave No4T used as a test bed for other things and it's identical whether V or H
Interestingly, I always test my muzzle lift with the barrel/fore-end vertical, drawing the calibrated balance scale horizontally.
So Mr. Laidler we could get maximum accuracy from an enfield n4 rifle following the traditional work that armourers did in the past. That's a very interesting assertion. I''l use my n4 for italian 300 m. vintage rifle match, so i'm looking for the maximum accuracy from the rifle. we shoot prone in a supported position without sling. In our experience there are any things to do or the rifle will do its best as we - me and you- have tested now? Are there any secrets??
Thank's,
Bow
So many questions and so little time Bow........ I used to work by what the bible (our EMER's) told me, what my apprentice instructors told me, what the in and out inspectors wanted and what the old time Armourers told me. All of a sudden, one day, one of my friends reminded me that a rifle (or any gun, but especially sub machine guns....) was just a heat machine. The only secret is to do everything properly.
I am slowly writing down everything I know. It won't take long.......... That way, everyone who want to shoot and maintain an Enfield will hopefully be able to a) do it themselves and b) do it properly and c) not fall into the trap of listening to some of the old horse manure that permeates some of the other forums.
I just wish that the REALLY, TRULY experienced Armourers of the generation before mine had done the same. They knew it all. Don't take tooooo much notice when I refer to No4T fore-end fitting. It's just a way of explaining to the unwise that if there WAS a better, more reliable and greater accuracy method of fore-end fitting, why wasn't it used on the No4T where all of these things were truly important
I'm aware of so many questions..For me it's a gamble: in Italy top shooters use swedish mauser or us p17. I firmly believe that a properly tuned enfield could do the same groups last but not least 'cause No4 has got better sights than any other vintage rifle and his bedding is depicted exactly from many and many enfield enthusiastic shooters. So i beg your perdon for my insistence and promise i'll be silent for a while......
Thanks again!
Bow