Printable View
Hi guys, I'm new to the forum but very interested in the history of old 1911s. I have an old Colt 1911 govt serial C61535 with British proofs and a broad arrow and C on L of frame near trigger guard. Any idea of the history of this firearm. Maybe an Canadian lend lease? Thanx
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_0477-1.jpg
Vinson i have a C prefixed M1911 45 auto also ( C160**) and was told that this is not a military 45 at all but a rarer Colt "Commercial"....pistol.Believe Johnny Peppers is the Colt guru Vinson he will be able to guide you correctly.
Nice looking gun by the way lovely early Lozenge grips
Regards
Lloyd
Squarely in the middle of the Russian Contract pistol run, IIRC. Which makes it scarcer than usual. The British gov't release markings are quite odd.
Why the Canadian connection?
Is there a C broadarrow marking somewhere?
What type of information were you looking for specifically? History of a particular firearm is often times very difficult to obtain. If you want to spend $100 - maybe more I'm not sure what they charge now - you can send a letter to the Colt Historian and they can tell you where it was shipped to when it left their factory. After that, it's up for grabs. What did you grandpa have to say about it? It was made in 1916 and somehow got to England. It was there until at least 1952. It may have been shipped back to the U.S. when it was released by the British Gov't. During the 1950's up to about 1968, it was pretty easy to buy guns by mail order. Importation of firearms to the U.S. was not that difficult and were sold by a variety of stores through catalog sales. Judging by the condition it wasn't used very much and it's possible not at all. That's about all I can tell you and no, it was most likely not part of Lend Lease.
Thanx guys, appreciate all your input
Not ignoring the question, but I gave a detailed explanation of my thoughts on the pistol where it was posted on another forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeyCarbineLover
JP
Which forum Johnny ? i for one would be interested in knowing more about this please buddy and all C prefixed 1911 autos.
Regards
Lloyd
It didn't show up specifically in the serial number listing contained in Goddard's The Government Models book.
Sorry about that. Missed your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeyCarbineLover
Canadian lend lease I think - 1911Forum
Got it Johnny and read the posting on there...was sent it via PM.
we never did sort my Colt Commercial out did we ?.....(serial C1601*)....will get pics pmed to you.....soon buddy......for appraisal
regards
Lloyd
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Well, for those of you who don't want to hunt for a photo of the Canadian property marking, here's one out of vinson's Photobucket album (photo 8 of 28, also see photo 7):
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_9857-1.jpg
Thanks for the link, Johnny Peppers! And thanks for your effort on vinson's behalf, especially!:thup: Some folk are kinda combative over on that forum, no? :slap: Might put some people off "help mode" altogther!
The moderators on the forum are a pretty patient bunch, but for his efforts the guy that disagreed with everything finally managed to get himself banned from the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
I first saw this pistol discussed on the 1911 Forum. It is particullay interesting in that it is the only 1911 Government Model -not 1911A1- that I have seen, with the Released by British Govenment markings. It has British commercial proof marks including the Not English Make, which was used from 1925 to 1955. It does not have any British military inspection or ownership marks that I can see.
Without a Colt letter it is really imposeble to tell if it saw service with Canada first and then ended up with the British, or the other way around. It certainly ended its service with the British and entered Britain after 1925.
Under Lend Lease the following is listed in official records. Pistol M1911/1911A1 British Empire 39,592. Canada 1,515.
Note that the above description is M1911 AND 1911A1. One can only wonder how many 1911's were supplied in the above. As the pistol is a commercial example I would tend to favor it going to Canada first and then ending up in British service, this is only supposition though.
This pistol certainly warrants a Colt letter.
I am currently writing a book on British Mititary Secondary Issue Small Arms 1920-1980. I would like to include this example in the book.
Vinson - I will contact you by PM.
Regards
Alan David
Sydney
The pistol could have entered England at any time after it's manufacture rather than only after 1925. It would have been proofed under the 1925/1955 proof law at the time it was sold commercially rather than when it entered England. On that particular pistol, it would have been proofed in 1952.
The 1515 pistols Lend-Leased to England would all have been the Model 1911A1 military pistol. No Government Model (1911 type) would have been Lend-Leased. While there is no record of the serial numbers of the 1515 1911A1 pistols Lend-Leased to England, it is know what shipment originally sent to Springfield Armory they came from, and the serial number range of that shipment which is in the 930000 to 940000 range. The M1911/1911A1 designation found in the War Department records was used to group all the models together rather than an actual record of Model 1911 pistols being shipped. The record also groups all the models of the 1903 rifle together which includes the Model 1903/1903A1/1903-A3. It is almost 100% certain that no Model 1903A1 rifles were shipped.
This is one of the 1515 Colt 1911A1 pistols Lend-Leased to Canada. It is in the 938000 serial number range.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2wg7r15-1.jpg