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Firstly, what a great web site. I would like to thank the originators and contributors for providing such an interesting and absorbing content.
How many Enfields make a collection?.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated when I miss out on a rifle I really would like to have owned, due to Firearms restrictions, and wondered how seasoned collectors decide what and what not to collect.
Any advice welcome.
I've got a HUGE collection of Enfields JSS................ Now here's an idea......... What about getting all of the UK pommy forumers together one weekday or even a Saturday in the Autumn or Winter and come and see them, all live and in the flesh. If you're well organised, I can even arrange lunch in our mess. Make it a group of 15 or so and, well, feast your eyes. While were not allowed to 'charge' as such, but I'd appreciate a small donation from one and all when you leave
On that basis, I'd say that 20 or 30 was a reasonable collection..........
You can only collect what you can afford. I started in 2003 and then went crazy for a couple of years then lost my job and had to sell some off. I sold off most of the 7.62 LE's I had and kept the crucial ones to me. Now I've settled down with three No.1s and a No.1 sniper rifle, a few Number 4's and a No.4 'T' sniper a No.1 Mk5 which bridges the gap between No.1 and No.4 and an L1A1 and L42. Thus I have the main battle rifles from Britain and their sniper equivalent spanning from early 1900's until well into the 1980s (and depending who you believe the 1990s). I have a couple of related oddballs also - a Winchester 1895 in 303 british and a No.1 .22 trainer. Realistically I shoot about once a month and my mini collection of 14 LEs will last the rest of my life and beyond for my son hopefully. That's all I need, but of course I'm always on the lookout - just in case there's a bargain around:thup:
---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------
As a follow up. I moved to the USA from the UK in 2002. When I was in teh UK and when I was a kids - I would have been VERY happy with one No.4 - it's all relative.
I'm not a seasoned collector of Enfields by any means. I've only owned about seven in my life. But I've been collecting various types of other rifles, mostly U.S Krags, 1903's and antiques, for 36 years. Out of the 160 or so long guns in my life I've owned over the years, I've only bought something on line twice. Everything else has been found at guns shows where I found them on a table and was able to examine them in detail. That included putting them to my shoulder and getting the feel of them. If I then fell in Lust for the rifle, I'd buy or trade for it. I've only owned, at the most, about a dozen old rifles or muskets at any one time due to limited cash available at the time, but I've owned many types over the years and have learned everything I could about each type. Usually, after studying up on and reading about specific events in Military history, I began yearning for such a rifle or musket that was involved. That's all it took to provoke me to go out and find one at a show. Fred
jss,
In my experience a collection is never complete. They always have a way of branching out and adding more items that you need to fill the "slot" A great collection can start from as many as one rifle.
Amatikulu is right, you can have a great collection with one rifle and its accessories. Over the years I have found great joy in finding and researching stuff like beach covers, muzzle covers, bayonets, scabbards and frogs, aim correctors, inspection mirrors, Armourer's tools, inspection gauges, grenade launchers, wire cutters and breakers, night sights (still looking for those;-) and anything else that is related to my rifles.
When I was in the Army and moving around a lot, I collected brass SMLE oil bottles. They don't take up much space and are cheap. I found some in antique shops, gun stores, and gun shows for as little as a buck or two each or $20 USD for a hard to find one that I really wanted. I don't have a lot of money in them, most I got for less than $10 apiece but they are a neat rifle related collection in and of themselves.
And I don't care how long you do it, no individual will ever have a collection that is "complete".
There is an awful lot of inaccurate information around regarding our (GB) Firearms legislation. (Often put about by Police FEOs, who should know better.) Many members of HBSA and, latterly, LERA have large numbers of firearms in their collections. In order to emulate them, you need good security and be a bone fide collector. It is the last bit that confounds people.Quote:
Originally Posted by jss
However back to your question: A Lee-Metford, a Lee-Enfield (Long), an SMLE, a No.4 and a No.5. You should be able to get five rifles past any Constabulary. If you want to add a sixth one, then a P14 would be my choice.
That lot, plus Full Membership of, for example, HBSA or LERA ought to be enough to satisfy one's Local Constabulary that one 'needs' more.
What you won't find however is the happy situation that pertains in the US or Switzerland and frankly it never has been. Partly because of their lack of controls over many years, there is a greater critical mass than the UK and so one can pick up rifles (and pistols for that matter) at often bargain basement prices. (For example, in Winterthur I recently saw a scruffy K31 for fifty quid.)
Hi
I can't really call myself a 'seasoned collector', as I've only been collecting Lee Enfields for just over 3 years and prior to that Martini Henrys. I currently have 9 Enfields in 303 calibre and waiting for another 1:1 variation to hopefully make 10.
For the purposes of my local constabulary, 3 rifles in the same calibre required justification of building a 'collection' ("... you have two 303s already...") and I wrote to them, telling them about membership of HBSA, LERA and the reference books I have, the types of accessories I've collected etc to convince them that I am a genuine 'collector'. I also pointed out that I occasionally like to shoot (I have access to local MOD ranges with a Norfolk club) and the police allow me a small amount of ammo for 'occasional test firing'.
I think that security (as has been mentioned) is a major factor in 'how many' to collect in the UK. 12 seems to be the magic number, beyond which you require an intruder alarm for the house and to 'spread the risk' between multiple gun safes.
For me the decision on the rifle is based on 'condition' (especially bore), originality - matching serial numbers and patina (I hate reconditioned wood and re-blued metal). As to type - well I am favouring the SMLEs in my collection, although I have a No.4 Mk 2 (UF55 series, being one of the last 303s) and a No.5 Mk 1 carbine too. My latest purchase, a 1943 Lithgow, fills the slot of a WW2 SMLE and also an Australian manufactured one, in my small collection.
As has also been mentioned, in the UK, price seems to be a determining factor too. You don't see any decent MK III SMLEs (with volley sights) for under £550+ retail and the Mk I SMLEs £800+. I paid £850 for a very good condition, matching SMLE Mk V last year and that I think was a modest price.
When collecting anything, probably the soundest advice is to view as many as possible, do the research thoroughly and buy the very best example you can (and can afford) from a reliable source and you shouldn't go too far wrong in the long run.
All the best
Mike
What constitutes a complete collection - it is never complete but I am reasonably happy with my collection of rifles chambered for the .303 cartridge - only a few more rare ones to go.
Come on youse pommy forumers - opportunities like this do not exist forever - I travelled around the world to take advantage of Peters generous offer and without even the free lunch!
Welcome to the site jss ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy
Thanks for the feedback... much appreciated ... :thup:
We normally only hear from users about what's wrong with the site, or receive ugly complaints about not letting people "beat on each other", or wander into heated discussions regarding politics or religion. :lol:
Rowdy ...
That's a beautiful looking collection. :clap:
Love to see some more detailed photo montages of those snipers. Perhaps create an entry for some of them on out MKL?
Regards,
Doug
Rowdy I see cape guns. If the rifle barrel is in 303 I'm very jealous. I'm jealous of the rest too, but more jealous of the cape gun/ drillings.
Here in Canada I don't know a single person that classifies themselves as a collector due to the current ownership regulations. I would like to get into the abuse of power by some against legitimate collectors but know Badger would frown on that.
No matter how many you have there's always another one you really want.
Be happy with what you have and over time enjoy them.
Wow!.
Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to post such thoughtful, interesting and helpful replies. Some wise advice too I think.
Very much appreciated.
Peter,Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
That's sounds like a great idea. I guess many forummers are LERA or HBSA so have possibly already seen it. Already have one seasoned collector who is keen to see it again if the opportunity arises!.
A new thread perhaps, if permissible, for this purpose.
jss
That's what I call "rounding" out an Enfield collection, :lol: :dancingbanana:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy
Seriously, a beautiful collection, Ray
Badger - There are much better examples of the snipers in your existing montages.
Newcastle - No cape guns - only a well used Jeffery double in .303.
Unlike most collectors I like diversity - the only common thread is the chambering.
Therefore I find sporters interesting also - bubba usually messes around with the sights.
I have to agree with all of the above and with only one addition. It can be stressful enough at times trying to decide what to buy among the items you find on your own, then there is that good friend who always manages to wedge one of those "hey, I found a rifle you would be interested in" into the mess of it. :)
Peter, HUGE is not quite accurate enough to describe what you have there at the SASC. MASSIVE is the first descriptive that comes to mind and I'm not sure that's even adequate enough.
Thank you again for the fantastic opportunity and sharing your time, Knowledge and of course... tea ! It was an experience I will not forget.
Rowdy,
May I request further pictures of the P14s you got in your collection? Do I see it right that there's a shortened P14 (third rifle above on the right sight) hanging at your wall? And please let us have a look at the P14 sniper :)
Thanks,
Georg
If you want to see a MASSIVE, complete collection of P'14's in the fles Promo, join JSS on a trip to Warminster. When I've gone, those days will have gone too
Well then, let me know when the trip is planned.
Thanks,
Georg
€dit: which Warminster do you mean?
No shortened P14 - just distortion of the fisheye lens.
Only old photos at the moment - sniper well worn and mismatched - the other is a Winchester that has probably been a range rifle.
I will certainly agree with the preceding comments about what constitutes a "complete collection"...... after collecting WW2 Nazi memoribilia for over 43 years, I finally realized how inadequate collecting can become. The moral of the story is simple: SPECIALIZE IN ONE PARTICULAR AREA, or you'll drive yourself crazy. I will also add at this point how grateful I am for the experience, data, and reference material this forum provides..........BUT, most of all I find it refreshing to be in the company of GENTLEMEN who treat one another with kindness and respect, and look forward to a continuity of those qualities in our field of interest that we can pass to the next generation of "gun-nuts".
I've been collecting for 39 years, starting with a beat up No1 Mk III. There have been decades of slow acquisitions, and a run of a few years of very good luck. It was not so many years ago that I held no hope of ever owning a No4Mk1(T). However, the Gods of Fate decided otherwise, and I've landed some really fine rifles. The tide is again out, but I know that one day, it will return and wet my feet. In the mean time; read, converse, travel to shows when able, and share what you know.
What is a COMPLETE collection?
I have no idea; I would suppose a COMPLETE collection should duplicate the Pattern Room collection, which was several hundred when I saw it.
The BOOKS say 24 variants of the LM/LE rifle. A friend collected just receivers (bodies) and had 31; I sent him 2 more he didn't have. I also have 2 rifles which are not represented in his collection.
In Canada you don't want to admit to being a "collector" for several reasons. (1) It opens the door to abrupt police inspections of your residence. (2) There was a movement, a number of years ago, to have "collections" DEWATted..... for the safety of the public, of course. This means that we are all shooters and hunters and wild-meat-eaters and target shooters and competitors. The authorities WERE keeping track of how often we shot (through the Book at the local range) but that seems to have gone by the boards, thankfully.
Just an SMLE Mark III/III* collection, by rights, should have one of each rifle from each factory of each year of production. I have been nearly 50 years at this and I have assembled all 7 factories...... and that much took 40 years, on my budget.
But I'm having fun.
You can have fun with your 'collection' even if it's just ONE rifle.... so that's where you start.
Where you finish is between you, your wife, your banker....... and what turns up at the next show.
Have fun!
That's what it's all about.
.
What is a complete collection???
I would think the easiest way to achieve this would be to define precisely what you want to collect and set parameters. If it doesn't fit into your collection, don't buy it. I'm trying to acquire SMLE rifles from every year of lithgow production. So far I have all but two and one is on it's way, soon I hope. It's been very hard and I've passed on and sold off some fairly desirable rifles of different types that I would still love to have owned but with my wallet, you can't have them all. That's why I love these forums. You can see and examine and share information on virtually every type of rifle without owning one.
Good luck to all with your own collections.
Ok Demo which year is missing. Can reply on the quiet. I have picked up some more since i saw you last even a 13