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Once again, I look for guidance and info in this fantastic forum. Have found a 1904 BSA MkI**** for sale, with the serial number prefix being CR. I understand this may be a possible Irish Free State Rifle, any truth to this? And does CR stand for anything? This CR serial number seems to have replaced another one. If this is in fact one, it will be bought. Thanks!
Quick search using Google CSE (Custom Search) in top right corner of forum turned up a few older, but perhaps useful threads .. ;)
Some old threads ….
BSA 1904 ShtLE MKI***
BSA 1904 Mark 1** IP
show off your smle with volley sights
Regards,
Doug
A lot of Mk I*** rifles were sent to Ireland and eventually found their way here. That is what I know about that story, I am sure someone here can provide much better reference than I. Anyway, the fact of the serial numbers is this.... They were renumbered at some point with the most common seen in the States being CR and ER prefixed rifles. Now, the ER prefix rifles tend to be in the original Mk I*** configuration while the CR prefixed rifles have a lot of No 1 Mk III* additons, the most noteable being the rear sight and rear sight protector.
Bear, that's exactly what this one has, some MkIII features. (and yes, I just bought it) Still wondering if anyone knows what the ER and the CR stand for. I would assume that ER stood for Elisabeth Regina, but no clue about CR. So I am to assume this was an Irish Free State rifle? Why the lack of a Fianna Fail mark?
Once again, this is why these rifles hold so much interest to me. Will try to get pics up. Thanks all.
A couple more pics. I included a drawing of two markings that I can't seem to identify. The drawing on left is one that I have seen on a few rifles, the one on the right is in the photo accompanying it. It is the small marking just in front of the knoxform. Any clues out there?
Can't believe I wrote Elisabeth Regina in my earlier post. Of course I meant to say 'Edwardius Rex.' Geez....
Based on what I've read on this and other Lee Enfield forums, the British Government sold its older style (SMLE Mk I's) rifles to the Irish after WWI. These rifles were modified to the SMLE Mark III standard as economically as possible at Enfield. Three serial number prefixes are found - CR, ER and G.
What I have observed are that the G prefix rifles were all wire wrapped for grenade launching purposes.
The ER prefix rifles retain the early style of rear handguard and are often in more worn condition.
The CR prefix rifles are in the better condition and have the rear sight protector (used on the Mark III) installed and sometimes retain the old style handguard with the integral rear sight protector metal removed.
I can also concur about the G prefix serial numbers. The ones I have seen have been Grenade Firing rifles. I have also heard of two R prefix rifles, but I have never seen pictures of them so can't comment on that. I see you do have many of the Mk I parts including the magazine. I am surprised that the front volley sight pointer is still in place. On the rear, does it look like the rear volley sight was filed off or simply replaced? I also notice you are missing the bolt head charger guide. That can be replaced, it's pretty common for those to be missing. Overall it's a pretty nice rifle. Oh, and about those markings that you have a drawing of, the one on the left is the Enfield EFD mark and no idea what that other would signify.
Thanks guys. The info is always appreciated. Interesting about the G prefix rifles, I have one that is getting restocked today, as Bubba had gotten his hands on it some years ago. The stock had been cut down, but show any signs of being wrapped at any point. Will post pics of it later today, it is a Fianna Fail marked rifle. Bear, I was surprised that it still had the front volley sight as well. It appears that the rear sight had simply been done away with at some point. The only complaint about this one would be that someone sanded the wood down some time ago and put a really bad coat of varnish on it. That will have to be remedied. Once again, thanks all.
It doesn't look like it was sanded too terribly bad though. That's a plus. I did notice the varnish. These rifles just look weird all shiny like that.
They sure do. I think I'll take it down this weekend and refinish it. The original finish has already been messes with, so no harm should be done. Still one question nags.....if this an Irish rifle, why no Fianna Fail mark? Taking it to the range tomorrow, report soon after!
Bear, does the lack of a bolt head charger guide bring some safety issues into the firing of this rifle? This is the earliest LE variant I've owned, and have already noticed quite a few differences!
No, there won't be a safety issue by not having the bolt head charger guide on there. You just won't be able to load from chargers. These early rifles are great just for how different they are from the No 1 Mk III's. That's what has attracted me to them, it's something different. I am not sure, but perhaps the Irish only put those FF marks on rifles during a certain time period. I have never really researched into it so I am pretty ignorant on Irish contracts, markings and such.