Note how the attaching hooks are mounted on an angle on the USMC marked USS MISS cover while the USS WYOM (Wyoming) cover has the hooks centered. Did the USMC have a special shovel cover ?Attachment 24172Attachment 24173
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Note how the attaching hooks are mounted on an angle on the USMC marked USS MISS cover while the USS WYOM (Wyoming) cover has the hooks centered. Did the USMC have a special shovel cover ?Attachment 24172Attachment 24173
Way nice shovel covers RCs...and indeed you are correct..one is earlier than the other and the USMC specific belt hooks denote this......one is a depot made shovel cover and one is an issue shovel cover (later)
The strap buckles should bear this out......any evidence inside them of the PQD ink stamp or the USMC fiscal year stamp ?
The USS Miss one is possibly WW1 vintage...
Regards
Lloyd
I don't know if they attached that mount at an angle on purpose, but yes, the Marine Corps made many shovel covers themselves at marine depots as well as a lot of their other web gear. Sometimes they sowed the hook attachment lower on the cover than was done for covers made by the myriad of contractors for the Army. With it mounted lower the shovel rode higher so the handle didn't get in the way as much.
You can distinguish a lot of gear made by the Marines by the lack of a 'US' stamp on it. They still used a lot of gear made for the Army and sometimes even removed the 'US' from the Army gear.
Check inside your covers to see if you can see a trace of an ink stamp remaining. Sometimes the shovel covers made at the Marine Depot will have a stamp inside the cover saying -
QUARTER MASTER DEPOT
US MARINE CORPS
Lloyd is correct.
Sorry, I didn't mean to 'walk on you' Lloyd - You posted while I was writing and trying to ad the illustration.
~ Harlan
Hey Harlan any info is GOOD info..especially as we are singing from the same song sheet regarding these covers.....love the MD (marine Detachment) USS-Wyoming stamp.....
Also some early USMC gear will have Nom markings too.....its a collecting interest all by itself USMC 782 Gear..
Great covers RCS...Love that QMD stamp Harlan ...NICE...:thup:
Regards
Lloyd
Here's an example of a USMC canteen cover made by the Marines and the design is unique to them.
They used a different 'cross over' flap design and didn't line the inside with insulation as were canteen covers made for the Army.
This one is in mint condition other than the corrosion on the fasteners I can't bring myself to clean off.
(Torn whether is should be cleaned to preserve the metal or left alone, so I've left it alone)
Regardless, the fabric is mint and has has no markings at all.
I think the USS marked covers RCS owns are outstanding, Lloyd!
The only issue I see with them is he has two of them and I don't have one with the ship markings!
I forgot I purchased two WWII entrenching tools (shovels) a 1943 and 1945. I was going to use one as a dig out tool if I got my stock jeep stuck but they are so nice I bought a modern USGI tri fold for that duty. I'll have to dig them out. Pardon the pun.
WOW ..NIce Harlan..you really bringing in the "heavy arty" with that one buddy.....does it have the funnel hole in the bottom or not ?........if not it is a very 1st pattern Cross Flap cover.....note the posistion of the belt hook and web hanger...later ones were moved to the top of the canteen cover.
First pictorial evidence of cross flap covers was seen with the "old breed" on Pelilieu...in 1944
Regards
Lloyd
Harlan and Lloyd, thanks for the information about the covers. I was unable to find any additional markings/stamps inside either cover. Both covers had shovels in them at some point in time.
It is alway interesting to find gear with additional markings. Thanks Robert
Robert dont sell them...well do sell them if that Singer 45 M1911 auto comes along...or that lovely Ithaca M37 WW2 Vintage original trench gun comes along.....:super:
ONLY joking buddy...2 very scarce and very rare and VERY nice pieces of unique USMC 782 gear.......especially with the ships provenance.....what was a ships detachment....40 or so marines ????.....makes them kinda special doesnt it..?
Regards and thanks for sharing
Lloyd
Hi Lloyd. No, it doesn't have the hole made in the bottom. Thanks for the info! I was disappointed it didn't have the 'funnel hole' when I got it and didn't know this design was earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeyCarbineLover
I guess while on the subject of canteens I'll post photos of the notorious black enameled canteen that's most often attributed to Marine use.
Early in the war the military was concerned with preserving aluminum and someone came up with the brilliant idea of using regular steel to make canteens and coating them inside and out with a thick coat of enamel to keep them from rusting. Trouble was they didn't take into account the abuse canteens took and every little dent caused chunks of enamel to chip off. It has about the same properties as shards of glass floating in the water inside the canteen. I think they stopped making them because of this tiny little flaw and all I've seen have 1942 and the maker 'painted' on the bottom -
They pained it because if they stamped it the enamel would have chipped off (It seems the flaw would have been apparent right there!)
Most of these found today have bare rusted areas all over the outside where the finish has chipped off.
Also, I think all should have this early first design flat top without the reinforcing rib around the top edge.
Go On Harlan...now bring out the accompanying enamelled canteen cup....too....:thup:
Do it or my Mack Products Ethocell Plastic 1943 dated canteen gets it........:help::lol:
Regards
Lloyd
Still looking for the cup Lloyd. (I don't have everything yet, including a rare plastic canteen!)
Now put the canteen down gently and take three steps back!!! :lol:
I will get up in my kit room and get my plastic canteen down Harlan....and we can start a canteen through the eras thread....:thup:
Its ok anyway buddy..i was only going to stab it a couple of times with my R C Co 1943 blade dated M3 knife......:rofl: (which i actually havent got........yet !!! )
Regards
Lloyd
My stomach is still tight and solar plexus burning from the thought of destroying a rare plastic canteen lloyd! :lol:
Yes, get some stuff out and take some photos! Probably be a good idea to start a new thread(s) since I about highjacked RCS's thread already.
(The moderator staff will throw me back under the bus again!)
Never happen Harlan......this new forum will tempt me up into my kit room and dig out some of my stuff.....collected over the 33 years ive been collecting US WW2 militaria.
Back on topic......come on guys show us your USMC shovel covers ...especially original TAC marked ones
Regards
Lloyd
Hey Robert,Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I meant to get back to you earlier. I don't know if you've checked, but even on ebay you can often find original M1910 'T-Handle' shovels for $50 or less if you wanted to have one to display with your covers. Original covers are more valuable than original shovels, and your covers with Marine ship markings are much more valuable. I'd venture a guess they're probably worth in the $150-$200 range each and maybe more on a good auction day. They're too rare, especially in that condition to know how much they could sell for.
(Heck, I'll give you $50 cash money for one right now!) ;)
Here's a shovel with paint worn off (as most are) for only $20 with no bids.
WWII US Army T-Handle Shovel, Double Stamped "US" NICE! | eBay
At about any given time if you do a search for 'WWII US Shovel' several will come up most of the time, and many have fairly low 'Buy It Now' prices. With these I wouldn't feel bad about 'restoring' one to display with your covers.
Also, while I was searching around I found an enamel canteen that's in the typical condition most are found today.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/06/bc5-1.jpg
The seller has a 'hopeful' starting price of $65 for this one, but I think he's dreaming. (Who ever knows on ebay though?)
Besides the dents and chips, the top is a later replacement.
Just as it is with old guns, condition and originality means everything. The seller has probably seen mint enamel canteens sell for big dollars and thinks a beat up one would be worth a little less but they're not worth much at all in this condition.
I ran across this picture. Nice triple treat. Harley, Thompson, and shovel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ywshovel-1.jpg
Well, heck Jim - I'll do it!
I already have two out of the three so I'm 2/3's of the way there. It would be a crime not to have the complete set. :rolleyes:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...11Medium-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00285-1.jpg
Cool photo! (These days I could hardly afford to buy a set of plugs for a vintage Harley!)
One of the guys out at the CAF hangar has one I get to drool over when we have meets out there.
Harlan, Just a suggestion, on your M1 TSMG, if you could find a buttstock without the cross bolt in the stock, it would be better for WW2. They were all produced without the cross bolt and became upgraded later on with the cross bolt. Difficult to find but still around.
There should be some 1942 dated USMC shovel covers produced on the 1910 pattern still around ? wonder if they used the off-set hooks on the later covers ?
Hey, thanks! I looked for one on GB years ago when I first bought it but never found one they didn't want a fortune for. Didn't want to put that much into it, but you're correct. Maybe I'll start looking again just for the 'hunt'
The covers are still around. I haven't seen one in a while, but even if I see one on ebay or someplace I'll try to find out about how the hook is positioned -
I know I saw something in a book showing the marine depot manufactured hooks being set lower sometimes, but I looked all through my books to try and find where I saw it and haven't found which book it was in. I wanted to find the section again to see if it said anything about them being sown on at an angle like yours. (Don't give up on me yet - I'll keep looking and probably find it when I stop looking!)
~ Harlan