new to this site, i would like to know how to tell if this rifle is a military issued rifle. it has the number 574 stamped into the back of the stock. 1525 on the bolt and serial number 014xxx
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new to this site, i would like to know how to tell if this rifle is a military issued rifle. it has the number 574 stamped into the back of the stock. 1525 on the bolt and serial number 014xxx
How do you know it is a Venezuelan Mauser?
Because the Venezualan crest is stamped on the receiver ring?
Then it can only be a military rifle - a national crest would not be applied to a private rifle.
A number with a leading zero sounds like a Czech export model. Or possibly FN.
Why not simply produce 3 pics? - One of the complet rifle, one of the markings on the receiver ring, and one of the left side of the receiver body, where Mausers usually have the type designation.
That would answer all questions and save guesswork.
Patrick
:wave:
Attachment 24272Attachment 24273Attachment 24274well here are the pictures, could you also help to id stamps/marks?
It is indeed an Venezuelan military Mauser. Made By FN (Fabrique Nationale) of Herstal, Belgium. If the barrel has not been cut down (difficult to tell from here!) then the proportions are those of an FN Model 24/30 Carbine. In which case, there will be a sling slot on the left side of the butt. Unless, of course, the stock was salvaged from another model, such as the 24/30 Short Rifle.
Unfortunately, the fore-end wood has been shortened and the handguard seems to be missing. As you already wrote that the rifle bears various non-matching numbers, this rifle must be classed as a "bitsa" (bitsa this and bitsa that). Nevertheless, it is a handy rifle in a shoulder-friendly caliber, and if it was mine I would check the head clearance, freshen up the muzzle crown if it is worn or uneven, see how it shoots, and if it shoots OK I would look for a replacement stock + handguard.
Patrick
:wave:
I agree with Patrick, if the bbl hasn't been chopped and checks out ok on the headspace gauge and has a decent bore, I would urge you to look into restoring the old broad. If you have never done a restoration on a rifle, it is usually a rather enjoying proccess in which you'll find yourself overly happy when a single screw arrives so you can mount that last piece or when some other equally obscure thing arrives.
They can also be a pain with the right information- but you've come to the right forum for helpful information. So, check her out, decide what you want to do and if you want to build her back up to the somewhat uncommon rifle she is, then let us know!
My only fear, however, might be finding thr appropriate stock....
... if it is a 24/30 Carbine, then there ought to be the text "FUERZAS ARMADAS DE VENEZUELA" on the left side of the receiver ring. If this is not present, then that increase the chances that this is a bitsa involving a cut-down 24/30 SHort Rifle - See Ball "Military Mauser Rifles of the World" for these subtleties.
Patrick
:wave:
The barrel does not look to be cut-down, although i could be wrong i will get a closer picture for you, the "FUERZAS ARMADAS DE VENEZUELA" is on the left side of the receiver ring. The action is still nice and tight fit, not loose one bit, the bore is absolutely beautiful and looks to have only been shot a few times. I have fired a few rounds out of it and it's dead accurate and functions great. I am definately looking to restore this thing, would it be a good idea to have the metal stripped and re-blued? Or is there any sort of value factor here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewmaster
Yes there is!
Stripping and rebluing will reduce value for serious collectors, and will not enhance the shooting. I had one of my very first rifles reblued, when I was (at least in terms of knowledge) much younger, and regret it. It just looks false, as it does not go with century-old wood. I never did it again.
So leave it as it is. My more mature (or at least, newer!) point of view is: it is legitimate and correct to refurbish a rifle to proper shooting condition, doing whatever an armorer might reasonably have done to keep the piece in action:
Remove dirt, crud and rust - yes.
Replace missing parts - yes.
Restamp those parts to match the rifle - no.
Strip and reblue - no.
And if you fish around in my old posts, with the keyword "1871" you will find photos that demonstrate this. Some of my rifles look pretty ancient, but they are all in good to excellent functional condition - the shine is on the inside!
State of play: you appear to have a "sporterized" FN-built Venezuelan Model 24/30 Carbine. Caliber 7mm. And you say it shoots well. I would look fo rthe bits to refurbish it (please note that word - the aim is to recover it as a good-shooting example of that type, not to fake it up). Just to be sure: check the barrel length from bolt face (bolt closed) to muzzle. That should be just over 17.6" according to Ball*, and overall length is 37.5" (may differ a bit because of the non-original stock). The 014.xxx number puts it firmly in the number range of the 1930s deliveries. The action is a "Large ring" type, like the standard M98 Mausers, 1908 Brazileans, 1909 Argentines, and Czech Vz24s - and of course, the 24/30 long and short rifles.. So in an emergency, there quite a number of stocks that could be pressed into service with some creative woodworking. Your problem will be to find a carbine stock, as has already been pointed out.
Satisfactory grouping for a carbine would be better than 4 MOA at 100 meters/yards. Before someone chips in with stories of his rifle making 1 MOA groups, please remember that this is a carbine with a very short sight radius, using open sights. in other words, the grouping may quite simply be limited by the ability to aim it. So be realistic: anything under 4 MOA at 100 is worth working on for further improvement. And don't worry about the POA being up above the black - these rifles were probably zeroed at 200-300 meters. Anticipate needing to fit an extra high front blade as sold for K98ks - all Mausers I have seen up to now had the same foresight dovetails, apart from Swedes. I even have a K98 blade in my M1871.
I think it is now time for someone in the USA to enter this discussion and tell you where to look for the woodwork and other missing bits!
Patrick
:wave:
*Ball actually writes 17.63". I wouldn't worry about the second decimal place on an 80-year od rifle!
Attachment 24290Attachment 24291Attachment 24292Attachment 24293Attachment 24294Also, the serial number matches on the receiver ring and barrel, i am including pictures of the bolt handle and the 1525 number on it.
Thank you very much patrick, i really appreciate it. thank you for telling me not to re-blue it, if it looks fake i dont want it. the overall length is exactly 37.5" long and the barrel is right at 17.6" long
Thanks for the photos. The foresight blade appears to be very short. However before rushing out and getting a higher one, you need to know "How high". And that means that you need to have more-or-less the right ammo and be quite consistent in the way you aim.
So I am now going to be impudent enough to advise you as to how to aim your rifle. Cheeky, I know, for a grandpa who needs to keep his glasses on a string round his neck so they don't get lost, but there is something to be learnt about using open sights that I have not yet found in modern books on target shooting.
For open sights, the usual aim is with the tip of the blade at "6 o'clock", i.e. with the merest crack of white between the tip of the blade and the bottom of the black of the target. The difficulty is to have the smallest strip of white, WITHOUT the foresight blade merging into the black. As soon as that happens, you have lost control of the height of your aim, and many targets, including my own, tend to look like a vertical pillar-box slit - two inches wide, but eight inches tall!
So practice this "6 o'clock hold" until it is the natural way to aim with open sights, and you have reduced the height of the group to something more like 4". If you can do much better than that with a carbine at 100 meters or yards, then you are a natural talent and don't need my advice.
Now we come the bit the books (at least, the modern ones) don't tell you. You will often see sketches suggesting that you aim like this:
Attachment 24295
Alas, with real-world eyes, what you are likely to see is more like this:
Attachment 24297
And with many open sighted rifles, even this:
Attachment 24296
- because the V is wider than the entire target frame. It is just not possible to line up the target black and foresight on the top of the V with any great precision. An expert shot with the Martini, Gerd Claes, has aptly described this view as "looking at the Great Pyramid through a railway cutting". And he can nevertheless shoot very well indeed, because he learnt to re-apply old knowledge that can be found buried in 19th century training instructions - namely, that the foresight should be held NOT at the top of the V, but deep down, and in fact with the depth varied according to lighting conditions and range. That is how riflemen were trained to use percussion rifles in the days when the backsights only had three or four settings - if any. The wide view at the top of the V was for what, in modern jargon, is termed "rapid target acquisition. The sighting was then taken more or less "fine" according to range and light conditions.
If you experiment, you will observe that as the foresight blade and the black sink down into the V, the whole picture sharpens up, being sharpest just before the blade disappears.
Attachment 24298
As with the sliver of white between the blade and the black, you have to find out by experiment just how far you can go and still hold a reliable, repeatable sight picture. I tried it on my own Martini, and, if you will excuse a muddled metaphor, it was an eye-opener. To be a bit more scientific, the local restriction of the optical aperture sharpens the focus.
I seriously recommend that you try this out until you are happy that you can hold the aim. It may be more awkward at first than the “all level” method, but if you persevere you will achieve better results. With better grouping you will be better able to judge just how high the foresight blade needs to be.
Yes, I know it looks wierd at first. But please give it a try! Your carbine may positively surprise you!
Patrick
:wave:
Hello, Everyone.
Brand new here. Joined, in fact, to thank Patrick Chadwick for that excellent bit on iron sights and sight pictures. Off to the range tomorrow to see about putting some of this new info to work.
ProfessrH
To Patrick Chadwick: I've stolen your last illustation for use when describing the Carcano sight picture at 100 yards, if you don't mind!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...77570a73-1.jpg
Very useful indeed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
No problem, if you acknowledge the source!