Pawn shop find/Enfield rescue/restoration project

Found an SMLE Mk.I** I.P. (India Pattern) in a pawn shop today, and bought it for $175 out the door. I'm still trying to decide if I over paid, but it was like a sad little kitty at the pound. I just wanted to take it home and make every thing better. Now for the details:
The Bad:
Bubba took a hack saw to the forearm:ugh:. The forearm has been cut off about half an inch in front of the rear sight. The nosecap, rear band, front hand guard, sight protector, sight protector screw, sight protector nut, inner band, band spring band screw are long gone. It has a U.S. Quarter in the buttstock marking disk hole. (But its NOT drilled and tapped:thup:)
The Good:
Rifle is BSA 1906 or 1908 dated (last digit is a little hard to read) and was converted to a Mk.I** I.P. at RFI in 1919 as stamped on the left butt socket. The receiver, bolt, barrel and rear sight are matching numbers. The rear sight is a pinned, windage adjustable sight. The bore is nice, bright with strong rifleing and a good crown. Magazine is nice with no dints/dings and no serial number. Other than the barrel and trigger guard that are RFI and the receiver that was originaly BSA everything appears to be made by Enfield. The buttstock and rear hand guard appear to be usable. The rifle has no import stamps, Just a small ENGLAND export stamp just under the safety spring, and a London Proofing stamp under the rear hand guard.

What do you think? I know I can save her but is it worth doing? And was it worth the price or do you think I paid too much?

Update: tinkering with her and managed to pop the quarter out. It is a 1954 dated silver quarter so gives an idea when she was chopped.

No, I don't think you paid too much at all. I would have grabbed it up myself. I have a 1916 BSA Fianna Fail rifle that Bubba got to at some point, still waiting to find that ideal furniture set for it. But the rifle ITSELF is a beaut. Have to look past what some moron did in the past, and see these rifles for what they are. Sounds like you found a really neat variation, good luck with it!

You are lucky, our local gunshop (robbers that they are) would like some $300 of my hard earned cash for a No1Mk3 in similar condition..... :mad:

Check with Springfield Sporters.
http://www.ssporters.com/parts/ENFIELD1.htm
They always seem to have the parts I need.... :thup:

D. :cheers:

One of the more pricey restoration parts for your rifle is the fore stock. Before you discard it, look and see if what remains is salvageable. If it's good, grafting a donor piece onto the stock can save you considerable money. A good job will look good and will perform well. Post a picture of it if you can.

Have examined the rifle a little more closely. The forearm I am fairly certain is toast, it has been sanded, cut off about 1/2" infront of the rear sight and the end rounded off (and it has an Ishy screw). Also looks like the rear hand guard has been sanded heavily and would be way to thin to mate up with correct wood. Buttstock is still usable but has been sanded. Another annoying observation, the rear sight U notch has been filed to a V. Fixable but a pain in the you know what.
Over the years I have squirreled away a small cache of parts, so the big question is what would be correct for the rifle. Currently researching to try and find that out. Will definitely need to track down a nose cap. The three I have are all wrong (Ishy with solid piling swivel boss, square Ishy, and a Lithgow with the sight adjusting holes). From what I can tell, when it was converted in 1919, the rifle would have had a marking disk and a cutoff (I think), and the fixed or pinned rear sight is correct and no volley sights obviously. As a standard SMLE Mk.III or Mk.III* forearm will fit, it has the charger bridge, the question is which one do I use? I know were I can get a Mk.III* forearm but I have a Mk.III forearm on hand. It is one I have been saving for a few years waiting on the right project rifle to come along. It is also fitted with a ground volley sight dial plate. I think it would go with a 1919 rebuild with a pinned rear sight, but not entirely sure. Would Ishapore have recycled the older Mk.III furniture onto a "new" Mk.I** I.P. rifle? Going by the number of British made parts on the rifle I think yes, but want to make sure. Does any one out there know if it would be correct for this rifle? Just don't want to stuff the job.

I will confess to being a bit computer illiterate. I have already taken some "before" pictures, will just have to try and figure out how to post them or better yet have one of my computer litterate friends post them.

Attachment 24380Attachment 24381Attachment 24382Attachment 24383Attachment 24384Attachment 24385Attachment 24386Attachment 24387Here are some photos of my Mark 1** I.P. rifles not that difficult to restore yours back to original looking.

Sht LE,
You might what to check out this stock set in eBay. Don't know how high it will go, but it looks nice. I know a good forestock seems to go for $75-$90 all by itself.....

Enfield Rifle Stock Set SMLE No1 MKIII Mk3 .303 | eBay

D. :cheers:

Ok, pics for your viewing pleasure:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00002-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00004-1.jpg
In the photo it looks like a 1908 date to me.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00005-1.jpg
1919 conversion date.

This looks like an excellent restoration project and I think you got it for a very good price. We'll be expecting some "after" photos.

I will post some after pics as soon as shes done, and it looks like it won't take too long. A call to Springfield Sporters has me a nose cap on the way, and the stock problem has been solved, did a trade with a friend for a nice used stock. Everything else I have on hand. Did a little work on her today. Fixed the rear sight and I was right it was a pain in the ***. Also installed a new inner band (that went well) and she has a cutoff now. I don't know if anyone else does, but I derive a great deal of enjoyment out of working on these old war horses.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00047-1.jpg
Old sight with filed V notch next to finnished sight.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00049-1.jpg
Fixed sight. I was actually able to recycle the original rivit.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000501-1.jpg
Putting on the inner band.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00051-1.jpg
Installed!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00053-1.jpg
Cutoff, now just to get some furnature on her and see how she shoots:dancingbanana:

Awesome project, well done.
If you need more stuff take a look in enfield resource.com

Busy day at the shop, but now have wood work in hand. Had a little time this afternoon and tried the fit.... YES! And its INDIAN! With no Ishy Screw!!!:dancingbanana: It looks like the draws are going to be good and tight and the butt stock as well. I would now like to insert a Thank You to Peter Laidler for his wonderful articles, they are a great help. I printed them all a year or so ago and have them saved in a three ring binder at the gun shop with my other gunsmithing texts. It should not take too much work to get her bedded correctly. Nose cap could/should be here tomorrow... or maybe Saturday.... come on USPS. Now, should I put a stacking swivel on her??? Any opinions?

End result.... Ended up spending $175 on the rifle. $21 including shipping on the nose cap from Springfield Sporters and made a trade for the stock. The rest of the bits and bobs I had except for a couple of screws and one spring which a friend gave me. I think she looks good for a $196.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00082-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00075-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00079-1.jpg
Decided to go with the solid Indian nose cap, which from what I could tell would be correct for this period (1919 rebuild date). Plus I don't have a rifle with that kind of nose cap.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000801-1.jpg
I spent the five extra dollars to get the one that had been refinished and had no serial number.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00081-1.jpg
The stock I traded for also was no serial numbered.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00083-1.jpg
After clean up. The original date is difinatly 1908.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00034-1.jpg
My able helper.

Very nice rebuild. Cats are great helpers when working on rifles, if yo drop something on the floor they'll go under the bench and sniff it, so you know exactly where you dropped it.

I can hear the incoming flak already so I'll put my steel helmet on in advance. But to me, cats and wasps are the two thing in the animal kingdom that seem to serve no useful purpose whatsoever.................

Looks great, another rescue from Bubbaville ! When you take it out, make sure you let us know how it performs.
Peter, Peter, Peter .. I liked you up until now :)

I will give a range report as soon as I get a chance to shoot her. The only concern I have is the forearm has a slight warp in it, with a matching warp in the hand guards. Perhaps that is why I got such a good trade on it. If you look at the close up of the muzzle you can see this where the front sight base is over to the right sight protector ear. Nothing is touching, so I am hoping it wont affect accuracy. The rest of the bedding is fine.

Peter, a few points:
She is a great hunter, I have no mice or snakes
She is very cute and fluffy (not to mention friendly)
Winston Churchill loved cats...... Adolf Hitler hated cats. Need I say more? :)

What an odd nose cap! Haven't seen one w/o "windows" before.

Cats are not like dogs in that you never know what sort of personality they'll have. Some are worthless, others mad, and others are just amazing good friends. I enjoy most "hunter" cats, but they usually aren't too people oriented, or are only comfortable around one or two folk that they know well. My last cat was VERY anti-social, but would come running when one of my vehicles pulled into the driveway, and was generally smarter than my last two dogs. Excellent pals for 15 years, we were.

Attachment 24794Attachment 24795Attachment 24796Do you still have the original BSA barrel or was in replaced with a barrel made in India ? when they replaced the original barrels with new barrels, they were serial numbered to the receiver but not dated on the early rebuilds. Here are some photos of the replaced barrel

The barrel is Ishapore, not dated but serial numbered. The nose cap does look odd, at least if you are used to seeing the ones with "windows". It is on page 99-100 in Charles Stratton's book British Enfield Rifles, Vol.I. He says it was "manufactured by Ishapore from 1918 until the early 1920s." I have found some other information that says it was produced from 1917-1919. At any rate it was in use when my rifle was converted to a Mk.I** India Pattern so it is plausible that it could have had one on it after conversion. My best guess is the lightening slots were omitted to speed up production, much like the solid piling swivel on WW2 Ishys and Lithgows.

Interesting point raised there somewhere about warped stocks. I have a couple where the forend is warped to the left or right and if I muck around with the bedding it will just screw that up rather thancenter the barrel. WHAT can we do with a warped foreend? Is there any remedy for the normal person? Could it be steamed or soaked or anything?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sht_LE

It is on page 99-100 in Charles Stratton's book British Enfield Rifles, Vol.I.

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Now I just have to figure out WHERE my copy is hiding! It seems that the books open mostly AFTER seeing something "new".

My copy is about worn out. I have added tons of additional notes and some drawing into the margins and any other avalable space. The new info has come from personal observation, observations of other collectors, new information found here, and information gleaned from authers like Skennerton, Reynold, Petrillo, Edwards, Maddox and others. I can't help it...... It's the historian in my.:)

One day, Sht_le, I will teach you to spell! In the mean time; he is absolutely right about having a book full of notes and observations... I have almost stopped going to my copy and instead find it more accurate to rummage through his!

M4A3, Spelling??? :dunno: Whats that? Now go play with your silly mousers... :p

I can also speak and read Lexdysic.... Wait..... I mean Dyslexic.

Further observation for Roy on cats being great helpers when working on rifles. I must add that if you fail to drop something on the floor they'll knock it off for you.

I'm so used to working "without a net", that I quit taking notes (a casualty also of Garanditis). Also , my books are NOT where the computers are- (usually about 60-100km apart, in actul fact!) So, the poor ole pea brain will hopefully keep functioning, or my usefulness here will be even more limited!:madsmile:

I did chuckle at your dyslexic comments ShtLE. Reminds me of the best dyslexic joke I ever heard. (Mind you, not so funny if you are dyslexic but there you go.....). It concerned President Clinton and the intern Lewinski. Apparently HE was slightly dyslexic and the misunderstanding arose because sent her a note telling her to 'Would you please SACK MY COOK'

Ho ho, the old ones are always the best........

RANGE REPORT:

Rained the last few days, was clear today so lugged it to the range (about 80 feet out my back door). No surprises with the rifle. Feed and ejection were perfect, cutoff and safety worked perfectly. Amunition used was Prvi Partizan 174gr FMJ BT, range 100 yards. A five round group was fired off of a makeshift rest. Group was 2 1/8" center to center:madsmile::dancingbanana:. Elevation was perfect, windage was 3" to the right of point of aim. When I get a chance to spend some time with her I will adjust the windage, as for the warp in the stock..... I think I will leave it alone. I'm happy with her.

The timber (forend) has dryed out. BLO is the answer lots of it.