new guy could use some help SC 03

Hello, I have a 03-a3 Smith Corona that I bought about 20 years ago from a friend. It has been in the closet for almost that entire time. I took it to a gun show today to get an idea of its value and one of the vendors told me it was nothing more than a shooter. He said it is a "parts gun" I guess built from parts? The trigger housing is not stamped steel, the magazine floor plate seems to swing open although you would need a tool or something to open it. The stock has a pistol grip. Can any of you tell me a little about it?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0208-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0209-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0210-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0211-1.jpg

From the pictures it looks like an awful nice "parts gun"..... Yes the trigger guard and floor plate are wrong since they are milled and belonged to a M1903 not a late M1903-A3. The correct parts are available and not very expensive, the parts currently on the rifle are much more costly.
The real experts will be here soon and will give you more advise.
Meantime take more closeup pictures of the rifle and post them to help with the assessment.

D. :cheers:

It's a "mix-master". Nothing wrong with that. It does not have all of it's original parts anymore, so it has most likely been through at least one rebuild. Some of the metal may have been refinished.

The original stock would have had a straight grip. The C-stock, like yours, is better for shooting. The trigger guard is milled, from a M1903, and made better.

The barrel date is in line with the serial #.

It is not original, hence the "shooter" or "parts gun" terms. Again, that's not bad, in fact, the "upgraded" stock and trigger guard make it a very nice "shooter". Is the barrel in good shape?

Nice rifle, I wouldn't change a thing.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks guys. I am feeling a little better. The barrel looks really good. I think, not really positive that it has a 6 grove barrel. Even though I have had this for a long time I know nothing about it or them. Should I get an original stock and trigger guard?

It is your call. It all depends on what you are after.
If you are looking for a collector rifle, then yes you would have to hunt down all the correct parts, etc.
If you want a rifle to go shooting and have fun with, I personally would not change a thing.
You have from the looks of it a very nice SC '03 that someone has changed/upgraded to their taste by changing the stock and trigger guard.

Are there any cartouches or any other markings on the stock? If there are could you take a closeup picture and post it.

Why were you taking it around to get it appraised? Thinking of selling?

Where are you located?

D. :cheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ave8er

Should I get an original stock and trigger guard?

---

I think your rifle is very nice as it is, and any attempt to 'restore' it would be counterproductive.

Too many people feel bad if there gun is not original. Most rifles have been through a rebuild and never will be original again.
Also, some vendors will refer to any gun that's not completely original as a 'parts gun' as derogatory in order to buy it for less.

If you are looking to improve the value, I believe the cost of parts would be more than any increase in collector value. Especially as nice as your rifle is set up for shooting.

As it is, it's in rebuild configuration with parts that would make it attractive as a great shooter. Plus, just being an SC it would have a premium over a similar A3 Remington.

The 'C' stock would bring a premium for a good shooter. If you want an original SC (as opposed to a Remington) straight stock, they're hard to come by and expensive when you find one.

It was only original once and it appears it was probably refinished during a rebuild, so even if you replaced every part but the receiver and barrel with SC parts it might not be restored to 'as original'. First you would need to determine how many of the parts on your rifle are SC. Most all SC parts are unique to SC including the bolt, butt plate etc - even the stamped parts are unique to SC even though they're the same or very similar to Remington. Most all Remington stamped parts have an 'R' stamped on them, and the Remington trigger guard is shaped differently. The SC stamped parts usually bring a premium over the same stamped Remington part because there aren't as many of them.

You could replace all the parts such as the stock and stamped parts from a Remington 1903A3 if you're just looking to have it with the same type parts, but it would still be a 'parts gun' as far as collector value and I think the monetary value might even be less than it is now.

Just my opinion
~ Harlan

I am not an expert but if it was me I would definitely put in a 03-A3 triggerguard and get the "correct" stock. After all it IS a 03-A3. That C stock looks to me to be worth at least $200.00, and the 03 triggerguard as a complete unit about $$50.00-$80.00, maybe more. Get a W.W.II style web sling and the cleaning kit for the butt trap, plus a nice W.W.II bayonet (probably the short blade one) and you are all set!

I would leave it as-is. The rifle has been refinished and, IMHO, would not be worth the cost and expense of "restoring".

You've had lots of advice here so I'll a bit. Someone, probably not the Army, took your SC barreled receiver, substituted a 1903 milled trigger guard (because many people think the stamped trigger guards look cheap) for the SC stamped trigger guard and added a "C" stock (pistol grip & higher, thicker comb) instead of using the SC "S" straight stock with a low comb). The C stocks are highly regarded by shooters because they are much more ergonomic and make the rifle easier to shoot well. Collectors like the S stock because they are "correct" (a term meaning a part that could have been on the rifle at the date of manufacture; it like it better than "original" - your rifle is already "original" in that it has all "original" USGI parts - just not ones "correct" for your rifle when it was made.) The C stock allows shooters to make a solid "cheek weld" to the stock to get a good, consistent sight picture. The S stock allows the shooter's chin to contact the stock with the cheek standing clear. The straight grip on the S stock allows only one or two fingers (not counting either the trigger finger or thumb) to grip it while the C stock allows all you digits to make a firm, even grip.

Since you already have a complete rifle, I'd shoot it to see how you like it. Do you have a buddy with an S-stocked rifle you can shoot & compare? If you decide you want to "restore" it, you can shop around for the various parts needed to make it correct. If you like it as is, well you have a great rifle!

Thanks everyone. That is some great information. Is it safe to shoot with off the shelf ammo? Would it be something I would be able to shoot in the 600 yard competitions? I took it in to just get an idea of the value. I told the guy up fron that I was not selling. He was kind of arrogant like it was basicly worthless.

Yes, you can shoot any over the counter .30-'06 ammo. It might not be a bad idea to have the headspace checked, which should be fine, unless the bolt is bad.

Someone else will have to inform you on competition rules.

Your rifle, in it's present condition, is in the $650-750 range, my opinion. Again, don't change a thing, it looks great!

ave8er,
Have you checked headspace?
If it checks out OK then yes off the shelf ammo is OK.
The guy you were talking too was trying to make you think the rifle was worthless so than then he could lowball you and get the rifle for cheap..... :mad:
Like it was mentioned, just in the stock and trigger guard you have between $300-$500. :thup:

By the way you don't need a tool to open the magazine floor plate, you just use a small pointed object (screw driver, punch, tip of bullet, etc) to depress the release button and the floorplate should spring open. :cool:

D. :cheers:

I just pulled the barreled action from the stock. The only marking on the stock that I can see is a K stamped right where the magazine cut off is. There seems to be nothing else. The inside of the stock is very rough and looks like no oil or finish of any kind has ever been applied. The stock has some unique tiger striping in the sun light. There is a P stamped in the barrel nehind the front sight and on the bottom side. There is a K stamped near the wittness marks where the barrel and acrion mate. There are very few other markings on either piece. There are no markings on the Trigger guard or magwell base plate. The finish on these pieces is diferent than the rest of the rifle. The butt plate does not seem to match and the door looks like a different metal all together. I need to take the rifle somewhere to get the headspacing checked and then if all is well I am going to shoot it. :-) here are some more pictures:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0213-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0214-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0212-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ----------

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0216-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0217-1.jpg

The more I research on here the better I am feeling. The guy had me feeling like I had something that someone put together in their garage from a bunch of different parts. That does not seem to be the case. Like I said, I bought this a long time ago pretty much because my friend had one. I have not even touched it for probably 15 years. I have started shooting again after taking a LONG break so I am digging through my old junk and selling, cleaning, tweaking and or upgrading so I can play with my old and new items. :-)

Thanks everyone! I know it is silly but the vendor who seemed to know a lot about these guns had me felling pretty crappy about my old rifle...

I figured the guys comments made you fell bad for no reason, and that's why I decoded to post. They were unfounded and probably meant to try to buy your rifle for cheap because he wanted it. People like that have no concern for hurting people's feelings and putting their guns down makes them more liable to sell it.

It should make a great rifle for shooting, and I'm NOT putting it down to say it should make a good shooter. The six groove SC barrel are among the best for accuracy and sought after. You can find a stamped SC trigger guard if you want the original type it came with, but the earlier 1903 guards are better quality. Your butt plate is an SC for what it's worth.

Like I said above, I wouldn't change a thing on it. If it head spaces well (and I'd lay money that it will) it will make a very appealing rifle for the range. Someone spent some time and money to make it a great rifle to shoot with.

I agree with Mike on the current market value. You have a desirable rifle. Just laugh inside if a 'knowledgeable' person calls it a parts gun.

The buttplate is Smith Corona, probably original to the rifle.

The trigger guard is from an early '03. You can tell by the fact that it has been drilled for a pin in front of the trigger slot. Is the pin in place? More info on that will follow.

Can you show a photo of the top of the action, showing the bolt assembly?

The "K" in the mag cut-off well is for Keystone. They made C-stocks during WWII to be used as replacements for A3's. They were also original on some M1903A4 sniper rifles. If it looks a little dry you can apply some BLO (boiled linseed oil) to liven it up.

There is no pin, should there be?
Top of the action:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0218-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG0219-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

The screw in the rear tang seems too short for the rifle. There is a lot of hole left when the screw is tight.

Early in '03 production, '05-'06, it was found that the '03 could be fired if you push the trigger forward. Trigger guards already in use were pinned. TG's made new had the slot shortened. I don't think this is a problem with the A3.

Your bolt sleeve, being "scalloped" is SC. So is the bolt. Looks like there is an "X" on top of the handle, correct for SC. The bolt has been refinished (parked instead of blued). Common on rebuilds.

Good info Mike. I couldn't see the 'X' in the photos with my old eyes!

ave8er, it should look something like this on top of the handle -

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1000220-1.jpg

Yes, it has the X just like that. So pretty much everything is SC except the wood and the trigger guard, correct. So the "parts gun" has most of the correct parts. :super: It is looking pretty good all cleaned up

Is there an S stamped on bottom of magazine well, under where the floor plate sits? (indicates Springfield Armory mfg)

Yes, there should be a pin in the hole. If it is missing, make one from a wire brad or perhaps a clothes hanger. As mentioned above, with a USGI trigger installed, the rifle can be fired by pushing the trigger forward. This was a design/manufacturing defect in early M1903 trigger guards, ca. 1905. This was corrected in newly made TGs by shortening the slot.

It is a great looking rifle and has substantial value. I would have the head space checked for safety but I would bet it's good. It would be a great rifle to experiment for accuracy at 600 yards. If head space is good, it would be suitable for commercial ammo. You have a fine rifle. I'm envious.

I took it to the range today and I was able to resist the temptation to shoot it. :beerchug: I put it on the sand bags so I could try and get some sight pictures. I wish I had a snap cap I would have liked to have dry fired it to get a feel for the trigger. I don't know that my old eyes are up to a 600 yard shot with these sights. The shrouded front sight basicly looks like a circle with a verticle line through the middle of it. What should I be looking for as a sight picture. I obviously cant do a 6:00 hold.

---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rimfire

It is a great looking rifle and has substantial value. I would have the head space checked for safety but I would bet it's good. It would be a great rifle to experiment for accuracy at 600 yards. If head space is good, it would be suitable for commercial ammo. You have a fine rifle. I'm envious.

---

Thank you! Not bad for a parts gun. :cool:

Hi ave8er,

The sight protector was intended to be removed for shooting. It is was just designed to keep the front sight blade from being bent while in transit and it's not intended to be a hood. Try it without the protector in place and your picture should improve greatly. I think the A3 sights are some of the best around and my favorite milsurp of all to shoot.

Just pull the protector upward and it slides off. It takes a good tug, or take your thumb and push upward from the base of the protector to get it to break loose. I leave them off of my shooters because installing and removing them removes the finish from the barrel.

There's a few people who say they leave them on to shoot, but they were not intended to be left on. Most often when they're in place there's only a small gap between the top of your sight blade and the protector. You saw today how bad the picture is with it in place.

I use a six o'clock hold and it works well for me, even with old eyes.

~ Harlan

Harlan,

You are the man! I pulled the hood off. It has not been of since I don't know.....ever! That is a much nicer sight picture. That blade is thin! I am anxious to get the head space checked so I can shoot this baby. Then I will be ready to get some dies and some brass and get some loads worked up for this "parts gun" Thanks again for all the help and information.

Paul :beerchug:

Happy to help, Paul. I think we all did the same thing the first time we tried to look down the barrel of an A3 that had a sight protector on it. (?????)

Your head space will most likely be fine and you're good to go. Good idea to check it though.

I love shooting my A3's better than anything I have, and I bet you will too. Unless the barrel is bad they're accurate as about any rifle around. With no gas system to worry about like a garand you can shoot about any 30-06 ammo. They make outstanding hunting rifles too.

Looking forward to a range report. Most guys at the range will oooh and ahhh when they see and and won't call it a 'parts gun'
(Especially after they see your target)