Brazilian 1952 R.Farmage 30.06 help needed

G'day guys.
I acquired a Brazilian girl ( well could be a guy, you just can't tell with them ) a month or so back. Now it is in great condition, supposedly unfired surplus that came into Australia in the mid 70's. Other than the damage done to the stock by the previous owner he also decided to use a six inch brush to paint it with varnish without removing the metal work.

Two questions.

1) How do I remove the front band, do I press the catch in and tap the metal band forward.

2) Can anyone tell me what the orginal finish of these guns. From underneath the handguard it looks like Linseed Oil.

Regards,

Myles

Hello- the Original finish of the stock was something akin to a linseed oil, and for all intents and purposes, you'll want to use that when you refinish it. Of course try not to sand off the... "custom finish" on it now, rather, use a chemical to avoid more wood reduction. As for the front band- It should just be that you'll depress the band spring and tap the band forward. This can sometimes require a third hand as the springs can be hard to negotiate. Some of my Mausers' bands slide right off like silk and other might as well be glued in place.

So, pictures good sir! Let us see your Brazilian pool boy (or girl, since it is indeed hard to tell with those Mausers) ;-)

Don't laugh - you are lucky!:madsmile:

My very first "doer-upper"was a 1908 Brazilian, which some genius had painted all over with brown floor varnish. It looked so horrible that the dealer reckoned it was only fit for decoration, so he took what it would have been worth as what in Mauserland is called a "deko", subtracted what it would have cost him to do the work in conformity with current regulations, and sold me the sad looking object for a neat ... no I won't say. Let's just call it peanuts. I bought it for my first attempt at refurbishing an old service rifle, thinking "if I make a hash of this, I won't have lost much except my time". It turned out to be easy to remove the varnish. Since then I have done several "treacle rifles", and have learnt that they are often in remarkable condition beneath the gunge, which has actually acted to preserve the wood and metal from scratching and rust.
Search the forums for "treacle rifle" and you will find an extreme example to encourage you.

The good news is: varnish is EASY to remove with the gel-type paint stripper. PLEASE follow my advice and do NOT use ANYTHING aqueous.

You need:
A pot of the gel-type paint stripper.
A natural bristle brush with metal binding - nothing plastic!
A burnisher - as described in my series on restoring the Argentine Rolling Block - made from the metal cover plate off an old 3 1/2" diskette. If you use a palette knife or similar, make sure that ALL edges have been thoroughly deburred, even sightly rounded. A sharp edge on a scraper or pallete knife can really gouge the wood!
A small can of methylated spirits.
A small can of natural terpentine.
A very small can of linseed oil.
A roll of paper kitchen towelling.
A subdivided box for all the bits, when you dismantle the rifle.
A clear workbench, appropriate screwdrivers etc.
... And lots of time and patience.

The series on the Argentine RB describes it all in detail , so I am going to exercise a bit of creative laziness and ask you to search it out yourself.

And please show us a picture of the rifle as it is now, so that it can be compared with the finished result.

Patrick
:wave:

Here are two photos of the treacle rifle. This was the extreme example referred to in the previous post.

Before:

Attachment 24438

After:

Attachment 24439

As you can see, the job may be messy and time-consuming, but it is worth it!:thup::thup::thup:
Note that the scratches on the varnish had not actually penetrated to the wood - the "treacle" had protected the wood!

So do not despair - your rifle may turn out very well.

Patrick
:wave:

Thanks guys,

I have started to pull it appart so I will put most of it back together (Only have one hand at the moment "broken wrist") and take a picture or two.

Myles

I put it back together as best I can with only one hand. Sorry about the photos. The stock is in good condition except for the milimetre of varnish. Metalwork is all good except for the rust on the bolt from sweat from the hands of the holders. It all matches and the timber grain looks unusal may come up a treat with the oil. The butt plate looks unusal I haven't seen a similar one. Is it correct to the rifle. Also is it a 96 action. I can't tell and just get confussed. I can't complain it was free.

Doesn't look too bad Myles. You must have had fun doing all thsi with one busted hand !
I like the price you got it at.. I wish they were all that price :)

Well, you have now seen how the worst treacle rifle I have yet seen turned out - I think that your rifle will come up beautifully, and you will discover that the varnish has actually preserved the wood and metal underneath.

But please follow the detailed instructions I gave in the series on the Argentine Rolling Block. That series took me (in all) a couple of weeks to write, and it makes me wince when I read of people soaking wood in caustic soda, putting it in the dishwasher etc. That kind of treatment ruins the surface and can warp the wood, which then needs another century to settle down while you laboriously restore the wood surface that was wantonly destroyed.

I apologise to all who feel (quite correctly) that this is a bit of a bee in my personal bonnet, but any furniture restorer would have fits at some of the brutal methods that people use on objects that have to be far more precise in their fit and machining than any piece of furniture. So NO water and NO abrasives of any kind!

Best wishes for a good recovery of your wrist. In the meantime, dig out the Argentine RB series. That was a serious case, and as I already wrote, with a little elbow grease and patience that rifle may come up a stunner - it already looks quite good through the varnish!

Good luck, and please show us when you have made some progress!

Patrick
:wave:

Jeff it's a good looking gun bar the varnish. I started to pull it apart again but still having trouble removing the front band glued on with varnish I think. I know it will restore up well, just thinking she/he is goin to kick like hell. I have been told much worse than a No5.

Myles

The 30-06 is a big round for a smallish rifle. I remember it was fun in a garand, semi auto soacking up the recoil and all .. a light bolt action means the mauser will kick like hell !!

By the way, the buttplate is correct, and it is an 1898 action- the give away is the rear of the bolt housing; it is far more complex and has an additional lug which houses a spring and detent. The buttplates on many of the brazilians are pretty unique with their wavy pattern (

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------

The rifle is an 1898 action; the give away is the bolt housing which is more complex than the 1896 in that is has a provision for the spring and detent that locks the bolt housing in place. The buttplate and its "ripples" are unique to the Brazilian rifles and are sort of interesting. More often than not, one sees them over-sized for the stock and I am beginning to thing that they might have been "cupped" slightly around the wood before time and shrinkage took their toll. Additionally, they appear to mostly be on on the rifles that were cut down and rechambered for 30.06.

m4a3sherman Thanks that comfirms what I read about the action being a 98 action, which had me confussed because the gun shop i had to register the rifle at said it was a 96 action. I hope it cleans up well as the guy who gave it too me said he had only put around 20 rounds through it and he had it for 30 odd years and he claims it was new/refurbished when he got it back in the 70's. Using it once on a hunting trip before placing it on the top of his wardrobe only to be brought down to be attacked with the six inch paintbrush and varnish. Have you fired one of these in 30.06 I am told that they are sort after here as being a cheap wild pig gun that can take the punishment of being knocked around. Which surprises me as milsurplus firearms are drying up in Australia too many collectors.

Myles

Where would I find more info about the "Brazilian" made ones, I can only find Columbian. And if this is a remodled/rebuilt one how can i identify the orginal model rifle.

Myles

The ultimate guide to mausers is typically in Robert Ball's "Mausers of the World" which contains the vast majority of known variants listed by country. It can be a little pricey but it is a superb reference and will be needed if you want to really let your collection of mausers blossom. Also, you want to shoot for the most recent edition, 4th I think, as it is vastly expanded over the previous versions. I have not shot one of those but I have fired comparable rifles and I have to say that most mausers aren't terribly uncomfortable to shoot. The vast majority seem to be in 8mm which is a stout cartridge but held properly, the shooter shouldn't be hurting at the end of the day.

Honestly, I don't see it being rediculous, and I would be surprised if it is worse than the No.5 Carbine- they are little beasts! But if you are concerned, purchase some lighter loads to feel her out a little. Be sure to post pictures as you restore her (or him) and definitely show us a grouping once you get out to the range. Also, speedy recovery of your wrist- that is a really inconvenient place to be broken.

Got the front band off. Glued on with varnish. Now the barrel has been seperated from the stock barrel markings are +05 on the bottom of barrel underneath rear sight and a circle with a T in and 34-4728 on the knox form. Top of receiver scrubbed and new emblem stamped.

Myles

hmmm... post some pictures if you can- Often times stuff on the underside of a receiver or barrel is more or less nonesense to the collector; a series of random letters and numbers that meant something to the inspectors at a factory but little to anyone else. I am not familiar with how those are marked; my Brazilian rifle is one of the 15,000 that were made by Czechoslovakia for Brazil back in the 30s or so and is marked like a VZ24. I suspect that the markings won't mean much but post some pictures; there are a lot of guys who have been doing this a LOT longer than me; I am only 22! I would guess the circle T is perhaps a maker's mark for the barrel. I believe those rifles were simply rechambered for 30.06 and in which case that might the firm who converted them but they may have also been rebarreled altogether... Again, this is starting to stray out of my knowledge bank on Brazilian rifles.

Will do, I will clean the grease off tomorrow and take a couple of pics in the sunlight.

Myles

Update so far. Varnish is off and now cleaning the stock up, the stock is in a great condition but the guys who did the conversion in 1952 didn't believe in quality finish. The barrel and receiver came up great once the varnish was removed. I was starting to get excited until I cleaned the grease from the bore. Beautiful deep rifling all the way up to the last 2 - 3 inches from the muzzle where it seems no existent.
I will try and take some pictures. Now the search for a replacement barrel. Don't know if I will find one down here.

Myles

Honestly, if the rest of the bore is good, I would see about having it counter-bored (and then only if you plan to shoot it a lot for any sort of serious targeting) because finding a good barrel will be difficult in pretty much any location. It may be already counter-bored but you'll have to check. I am not sure about the refinishing process they did and how thorough it was.

I haven't seen it myself but on another au shooting forum someone was cleaning a no1 mkIII* which apparently had no rifling near the barrel. I am lead to believe that after some serious cleaning it came up but before that the owner was ready to rebarrel. A half decent clean did not clean it up, a concerted effort rescued it. The crud was so bad it made it look worn.
Of course, your barrel may well be screwed but it's a thought and cheaper and easier if it works.

While the linseed oil soaks in. Had time to pick the barrel and action up again. Well it's not Brazilian but Columbian. That shows you not always what you see on the net is correct. Bore might clean up a bit better but not holding my breath.

Myles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bearclaw

That shows you not always what you see on the net is correct. Bore might clean up a bit better but not holding my breath.

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Don't despair! The rifling on my Brazilian looked so worn that it was "polygonal" rifling - no edges. Clean shoot clean shoot clean shoot... not worrying about grouping ...just hoping for round holes somewhere on the paper .... with a couple of runs with the ammonia bore cleaner in between. It came back up again. Not a match rifle, but not a wallhanger either.

In general, gases and projectiles wear barrels from the throat end - not the front end. Rifling disappearing at the front end is normally either rust (really gone) or hard-baked crud (looks gone). Serious maltreatment with a steel cleaning rod etc can easily ruin a crown, but not 2-3 inches down the barrel, as you describe. However, if you can see circular marks in the bore, then maybe someone removed rust with a wire brush in the chuck of an electric drill - that DOES ruin the bore.

Patrick
:wave:

Patrick, Ouch, electric drill. Next time I am at the gun shop I will pick up some copper brushes. Did a quick clean the other day and faint rifling has appeared. Fingers crossed it is rust and crud filled. Stock is coming up a treat, but helps that it is as new, the varnish protected it, the rifle seems to have seen little use if any at all.