marines with garands in 1941????

I have been reading Remembering Pearl Harbor, This is a book of interveiws of pearl harbor survivors . There is this one Marine Leslie Le Fan. He was attached to the marine barracks at pearl harbor. He stated at the time of the attack he had is rifle but no ammo. A sgt mannaged to get some bandoliars of ammo but it was in 1903 5 round stripper clips and he had no M1 clips so he could only load and fire one round at a time. Hold on! marines did not get M1s until 1942. He further states that he remembered the serial number 351735 and he carried it until 1944. I would normally chalk this up to a vets faulty memory, but remembering the 1903 clips and the serial numer there just seems to be something more to this then a bad memory

Pearl Harbor being such a chaotic event, could it be that rifles were handed out quickly and so Army rifles may have ended up being issued to Marines in the emergency ?

In the book he says that he grabbed his rifle out of the storage rack when they left the barracks so it was his issued rifle. He also states his job was to help train Marines for sea and embassy duty So I was considering that. maybe Marines that were on embassy duty had more advanced arms

There were definately M1s because if you read Pyle's book on the M1, he details the accidental destruction of a rifle that came from the barracks rafters there. Who had the issue would be difficult to prove now...

The serial number falls right also. Odd.

On the other hand, that serial number would have made that M1 brand new at the time of Pearl Harbor

The one Pyle illustrated is a gas trap, but I for one have an 8-41 and I don't believe for a minute ALL the pre war rifles went to England. Mine's 328219, just a bit ahead of the one in the story. There's a pic around here somewhere of marines on board ship with their brand new gas port rifles. I think it was about the same time.

The Marines did have some M1's in 1941, there are some photos here that date to 1940-1941 with them in a rack the the above poster is referring to.

They were just sort of rare, and the supply problems with the 8 round clips was also a problem in the Philippines in 1941-1942.

---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 PM ----------

Rice 123, not familiar with the book. Who was the author?

the cover says edited by Robert S La Forte and Ronald E. Marcello

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

the cover says edited by Robert S La Forte and Ronald E. Marcello

BAR, mine is 327580, August 1941.

Earlier than mine...lucky sh*t! Seriously though, I do prefer numbers under 1 mil. Recently on another forum here in Canada, we discovered the whereabouts of SA 153 and SA 154. I seemed to be the only one that noticed or maybe cared. They are both Danish returns with a real mixed basket of parts. ...Are we off topic yet?

The USMC adopted the M1 Rifle in Nov 1941. The serial number 351735 could also be a low number 1903 USMC rifle too. The 57 Inf Reg and 31st Div plus the 26th Cav (PS) also had the M1 rifle in the Philippines before Dec 7th 1941. Most photos showing Marines at Pearl Harbor during the attack, are with M1903 rifles. It is difficult to find a answer after all these years.

Would be interesting to know more about s/n 153 and 154 plus any available photos

All I have is the basic photo of the receiver tail from the pic they posted. Just the number. 154 (I think) was for sale. A Dane return which had a huge mix of parts was just a shooter. He wanted $2500 Cdn for it. The other was just asking what it was and the others on the forum thought he was mis reading the number. I remembered the other for sale post and put the two together. Ontario and Alberta. Both posters have since dropped out of sight.

M-1 Garand SN 2194 was reinspected on 071439 USMC San Diego...ref... SRS Vol 2 page 135...A second entry for SN 2194 states on 050940 USMC ( 1st M-1 rifles)...regards

There were at last count, 395 gas trap serial numbers found (most four digit) that were in use by the USMC - question did they 1) return them 2) have them converted to gas port 3) use them as gas trap rifles ? A friend has s/n 4302 (USMC number) that was converted to gas trap

I'm betting they were converted. On another forum here they convinced themselves they had a pic of a gas trap going ashore on 6 Jun. I say I can't believe that would be possible. I thought there was an order to convert them. One of these guys will know for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'm betting they were converted. On another forum here they convinced themselves they had a pic of a gas trap going ashore on 6 Jun. I say I can't believe that would be possible. I thought there was an order to convert them. One of these guys will know for sure.

---

In the Spring 2011 GCA Journal, page 32, an article by Marty Black shows a no-trap buttplate with the sling swivel and screw still attached and a clip of AP ammo that he personally found allong the Kall Trail, Hurtgen Forset from the Fall, 1944 battles there. You can assume either correctly or incorrectly that the rifle it was attached to was still a gas-trap.

They were ordered to convert them (when and if the found them).

I believe you will find no trap buttplates were used on the Winchester stocks for quite some time. We've discussed that very thing here on a thread a few days ago. Winchester used trapless plates through the summer and into the early fall of '42. It's more than likely this is the rifle that made it to Hurtgen to remain there.

It was reported a few years ago that someone found a no trap buttplate in the first aid station, the germans and americans used during the battle of the Hurgten Forest....regards

Thats the one they are talking about, it was found by Marty Black in the first aid station area.

A picture I sent to the GCA is on the cover summer 2002 and shows a Gas Trap in Sept 1943 at Vella Levella being used. At that time it was the first photo verified in war. Being the detail person I am I caught the no trap plate and the sight. Below is the picture. Remember the rifles made it as quick as the troops. There was no delay as many want to think. Rick B

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...07/wwii1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tgastrap-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

I have to find this book again so I can get a close up. I took this back when I didn't know how to use a macro around 2000. Rick B

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8...rapbugnet3.jpg

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

This was published for January 1941 not sure how long they kept them. Rick B

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1...inegastrap.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I believe you will find no trap buttplates were used on the Winchester stocks for quite some time. We've discussed that very thing here on a thread a few days ago. Winchester used trapless plates through the summer and into the early fall of '42. It's more than likely this is the rifle that made it to Hurtgen to remain there.

---

But you don't know that. Gas Trap rifles appeared as late as 1953 at Letterkenny Army Depot for conversion and overhaul.

It seems like for every rule of thumb there is an exception...

Sure thing...

Mine is 301549, unfortunately it is a "Blue Sky" return form Korea and is in sad, sad shape. I haven't checked the bits to see what is correct as I was considering it for a 308 Match build until I bought a Navy 308 built on a March 43 receiver (1446860)
Thaine

The USMC had several Garands prior to 1941

2922 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
2922 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
2922 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
2979 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
2979 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3011 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3011 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)

3354 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3373 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3377 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3377 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3377 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3381 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3381 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3381 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3385 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3385 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3385 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3395 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3398 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3398 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3398 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3402 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3404 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3404 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3410 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3410 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3410 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3411 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3411 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3411 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3422 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3422 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3430 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3432 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3434 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3434 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3434 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3435 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3435 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3435 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3437 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3440 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3440 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3440 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3442 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3442 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3442 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3449 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3449 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3449 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3452 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (RECEIVED)
3452 071439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REINSPECTED)
3452 050940 USMC (1ST M1 RIFLES)
3455 012439 USMC - SAN DIEGO (REC

1903, are these serial numbers you listed? "3354 050940" Did I miss something? I mean I know they are not serial numbers per se'. Or, are these contract numbers?

The serial numbers are from SRS, but the question is did the USMC keep them or return them

Bill,
the info is indeed from Springfield Research records. The first four digits are the M1 serial number and the next 6 digits represent the date that the rifle was with the organization( which came from some type of official record uncovered by SRS in the National Archives ). RCS.....is there some info that the rifles were just for test and evaluation by the Marines? I don't have any of the M1 references ( other than Duff's book ) that might mention that.

Okay, that makes perfect sense now. Thanks