Short Stroking M1

I have an M1 that I bought at a gun show (I know) that has been rebarreled with a Criterion barrel and completely reparkerized with new wood that fits nice and tight. The first few rounds through this rifle functioned correctly. I'm using Federal's American Eagle M1 rounds. Since then it fails to feed reliably. Doing a search here yeilded a cracked gas plug which I replaced. Today I fired two clips through it and the first 8 rds had to be cycled manually. On the second clip 1234 were manual, 567 fed themselves, and 8 was manual again. Here is what I know/verified.

Gas plug is good
Gas piston mic'd a little ovate or flat sided @ .525 x .523
Gas cylinder looks okay, but I can't measure the Bore where the piston rides. Exception being that the bayo lug is beat up where someone drifted it off.
The rifle passes the tilt test very easily
The man I purchased it from said he chambered the barrel very tight
Gas port is not plugged or restricted

Please help me fix my short stroke!:D

There have been many posts on the subject of commercial ammo in the M1 Garand. With the exception of Hornady's target round designed specifically for the Garand, my last understanding was that there wasn't any commercial ammo that functioned well with the Garand without an adjustable gas plug. You can read some of the opinions HERE. The upshot of the problem is that modern power formulations burn too quickly, throwing off the timing of the Garand's gas system. A possible result can be a bent Op Rod. This can be ameliorated by the use of the adjustable gas cyllinder lock screws. There are two both available from Brownells, Shuster and McCann. The basic technique is to install the plug, open it up 'til the action doesn't cycle, then slowly adjust it down to where the action just cycles reliably.

Most folks stick with milsurp ammo (available from the CMP Store) but the adjustable plug gives you an option.

Of course, there could be other reasons for the problem.

Bob

Thank you for the links. That said, the ammunition sold for the M1 Garand is not suitable for use in the Garand? I will say that the recoil felt different at times with it being the heaviest on the rounds that cycled correctly. Maybe I'll just wait to get my dies to continue to test function. I thought that factory ammo would be the best option for break in and baseline for operation.

I wasn't aware that Federal was putting out a Garand load. Sorry about that. Around this board, most people suggest running milsurp ammo as the baseline when calibrating the rifle. I really don't know the characteristics of this round other than the fact that it has a 150 grain bullet and 2740 fps at the muzzle. However, I can tell you that the lowest price I found for it online was $19.95 for 20 rounds. That's a buck per pop. The Greek ammo from the CMP averages out to $0.53-0.54 per shot - right around half that. I wonder if the Federal primers are tough enough to handle the semi auto action? If not, there's the possibility of the firing pin firing it when the bolt slams home. Surely they thought of that when they spec'd it for the Garand, though. Hopefully someone better acquainted with the problem will wander by soon!

Good luck,

Bob

I will have to get registered with the CMP. I bought the Federal ammo as a crutch to get by until I begin to reload. It is hard to determine what the condition of the op rod because of the refinishing. The rod looks perfect, but the piston shows some age. I was wondering if anyone has gotten similar measurements on theirs before. Or possibly knows what the inside dimensions of the gas cylindeer should be. Mine has obvious peening with scratches and gouges, but it fits very tight to the barrel. The problem seems to be in my opinion, a loss of gas pressure. The ammo may not be the genuine article, but it is loaded to mimic it. My next step will be either new cylinder or repair/replace the op rod. The latter being the least desireable. I know each rifle is it's own animal, just hoping someone had a similar experience!
As a sidenote, there was a gentleman at the range that said it is possible to braze brass to the piston and turn it down to size to allow the brass to be the bearing surface. I would rather avoid things like that, but does it hold water?

Don't be fixin' your own piston. Your CMP has that sort of thing I think. They are available to you anyways. There's lots of them right here on this forum. I haven't gotten involved until now because we go through this every week here. This whole thing is here in the M1/M14 forum and there is a sticky for stoppages of the M1. Yes, there's a proper inside dimention for the gas cylinder and an outside measurement for the piston. I agree that one of these is to blame. I don't think it's the factory ammo because this particular load's marketing position was "To be used in the M1". I just wonder, you had no problem until you changed the gimped gas cylinder lock screw? Why can't that be at fault again? New parts aren't always new, maybe just refinished.

The rifle has never functioned correctly since I've had it. In my efforts to find the problem I found the cracked gas plug. I replaced it to no avail. Maybe a marginal improvement since it cycled itself a few times after replacement. I see this as further evidence of blowby. I am a newbie and was just asking in the hopes that there was a clear answer. I guess it is just because I bought this particular rifle on an impulse, at a premium price, and I want to minimize the amount of $$$$ I'm throwing at it! I bought it from an individual as well, so there is little to no recourse.:banghead:

True, maybe a new OP rod and gas cylinder will do it. I should think so. Just be careful of your source and let us know how this develops. The beauty of these rifles is that they CAN be rebuilt easily.

If your op-rod piston is undersize as you say, ship your op-rod off to Columbus Machine in Ohio and have a new one installed. Much cheaper than a new operating rod. Maybe you can get lucky and find someone local with an M1 gas cylinder gauge so you know where you stand in that regard. Since your barrel is a commercial replacement, have you verified the diameter of the gas port in the barrel? Is the gas port obstructed at all when the gas cylinder is installed?

You should have a piston gauge, and a set of cylinder gauges. You can sell them when you're done, or keep them like I did. I save $150. on an oprod, thanks to my gauges. I've never had trouble with Hornady or Federal M1 ammo, but I refuse to pay those prices. I suggest completely going over your parts, in case something else has been buggered up, and making sure your rifle is properly lubricated.
Charlie

Attachment 24751

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 119er

The rifle has never functioned correctly since I've had it. In my efforts to find the problem I found the cracked gas plug. I replaced it to no avail. Maybe a marginal improvement since it cycled itself a few times after replacement. I see this as further evidence of blowby. I am a newbie and was just asking in the hopes that there was a clear answer. I guess it is just because I bought this particular rifle on an impulse, at a premium price, and I want to minimize the amount of $$$$ I'm throwing at it! I bought it from an individual as well, so there is little to no recourse.:banghead:

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Back when I was in high school a friend of mine formulated the rule of Levitt: If you are forced to solve a problem and you don't know what you are doing replace the cheapest thing first in your experiments. Did you disassemble it and clean and lube it when you first got it? It could just be gummy from disuse. Try swapping out the op rod spring. If you can't borrow a good one then clean and stretch the one you have a tad. If you haven't taken it apart already you may even find the spring is in pieces. Anyhow the spring is what operates the gun during the load cycle. Its hard to tell from your post if its failing to pick up a round and closes on an empty chamber or it fails to chamber a round it has picked up. Also with the spring out reassemble the mechanism and the wood and see if the loading cycle is hanging up on something by operating gently it by hand. Put the spring back in before firing it.
Also, try this: M-1 Garand tips accuracy improvements - Detroit Firearms | Examiner.com

Some other factors that might be worth checking:

Gas piston diameter 0.525 min. ( seems like your piston is smaller. )
Gas cylinder internal : 0.532
(From Duff's book, M1 Garand Owner's Guide , very good to have)

Try putting a piece of tape on the piston , measure it with a mic , and use it for a crude gas cylinder guage . It is not ideal , but better than nothing.
A tight chamber can complicate function .
What kind of lube are you using & where?

I completely disassembled, cleaned, and lubed the rifle following the CMP website for lubrication. The bolt will travel rearward with enough force to eject the empty case 4 to 6 feet away from my position, but closes on an empty chamber. When empty, it takes extra effort to lock the bolt rearward once it reaches roughly the last 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so. When loaded this diminishes somewhat. Also, on the last round fired it ejected the case but not the clip. I'm going to get some measuring tools and get it figured out.

Those symptoms are insufficient gas. Also just a thought, check inside your op rod with the spring out to see there's not a cleaning patch in there.

Start with this information. I use this in my shop to evaluate Garands that are acting up. To function check you need some known good ammo MADE or RELOADED to original M1 specs. A chamber to tight on a Garand will eat up a lot of bolt velocity needed to cycle. Check chamber with a good set of gages. You can have a match chamber but not to the level of a bolt gun. Also check that the Op Rod spring has not been changed out to a heaver weight. See bolt over speed section.

Section 10.
Paragraphs 40-51

MALFUNCTIONS AND CORRECTIONS_______________________________________ _
40. Scope
The malfunctions and corrections contained herein are supplementary to those contained in using arm manual FM 23-5. Although the same malfunction may appear in both the using arm manual and in this manual, the possible causes and corrective actions contained herein are in addition to those covered in the using arm manual. Therefore, when malfunctions are being corrected by ordnance personnel reference to FM 23-5 will be necessary.
41. Clip Inserts with Difficulty
If difficulty is encountered in inserting a loaded clip in the receiver of a rifle which has previously been loaded without apparent difficulty, it may be assumed to be caused by a deformed clip which should be discarded. However, if continued trouble is encountered in inserting loaded clips, it may be caused by one or more of the following reasons:
a. POINT OF CLIP EJECTOR TOO LONG
If the offset point of the clip ejector is too long, it may scrape against the side of the magazine aperture in the stock, thereby making it difficult to depress the clip ejector. Disassemble the barrel and receiver group and trigger housing group from the stock, then reassemble the two groups together without the stock. Note the position of the offset point of the clip ejector in regard to the outside face of the magazine of the receiver. If it protrudes beyond this face, the point of the clip ejector is too long. Remove the clip ejector from the trigger housing group in accordance with FM 23-5 and grind the offset point until sufficient clearance is obtained.
b. BURRS IN MAGAZINES.
With the trigger housing group removed from the receiver and the bolt retracted, examine the magazine for burrs. Burrs in the follower and slideways will prevent the follower and slide from functioning, thereby making it difficult to insert a loaded clip. Remove burrs with a fine-grained sharpening stone.
c. INTERFERENCE BETWEEN BULLET GUIDE AND FOLLOWER ARM.
Remove the barrel and receiver group from the stock and retract the bolt. With the right hand holding against the operating handle so that the bolt does not release, depress the follower and slide several times with the left hand and observe if interference is encountered between the bullet guide and follower arm. This interference is often caused by the opening in the bullet guide being "squeezed in" thereby causing the follower arm or follower rod to drag on the bullet guide. Remove the bullet guide from the receiver in accordance with FM 23-5 and with a suitable wedge spread the opening until suitable clearance is obtained between the bullet guide and follower arm.
42. Short Recoil
Short recoil stoppages, often confused with feed stoppages, occur in rifles which are underpowered; and therefore do not drive the operating rod completely to the rear. When a weapon is underpowered, and thus subject to short recoil stoppages, it will usually close on an empty chamber or fail to eject the fired case, closing with the spent case in the chamber. This is the type of malfunction which occurs most frequently in the rifles. In analyzing this type of stoppage, the possible causes listed below should be carefully checked:
a. UNDERSIZED PISTON. Refer to paragraph 20d.
b. OVERSIZED GAS CYLINDER. Refer to paragraph 20g.
c. UNDERSIZED BARREL AT SPLINED SECTION. Refer to paragraph 21f.
d. CARBON OR FOREIGN MATTER IN GAS PORT OF BARREL. Refer to paragraph 21f.
e. CARBON IN GAS CYLINDER. Refer to paragraph 21c.
f. OPERATING ROD BINDING. Refer to paragraphs 20d and 30,
g. VALVE LEAK IN GAS CYLINDER LOCK SCREW. Refer to paragraph 20g.
h. DEFECTIVE OPERATING ROD SPRING. Refer to paragraph 20c.
i. BOLT BINDING. With the follower rod and operating rod removed from the rifle, operate the bolt back and forth several times by hand and note where it is binding. The rear lug on the bolt dragging on the receiver and heavy or burred locking lugs are the two most common causes of a binding bolt. Remove the bolt from the receiver in accordance with FM 23-5 and with a fine, flat file or fine-grained sharpening stone remove just enough metal so that when the rifle is tipped up and down, the operating rod and bolt, with the follower rod and operating rod spring removed, will move from closed to open position and back by their own weight.
j. BURRS, FOREIGN MATTER AND IMPROPER LUBRICATION. Refer to Section 4.
k. RUSTY OR RINGED CHAMBER. Clean the rifle barrel in accordance with instructions contained in FM 23-5 and examine it as outlined in paragraph 9c of this manual. If barrel is unserviceable, refer to paragraph 22c for instructions on replacement.
43. Bolt Fails to Close Tightly After Fire.
This condition may be due to one or more of the following causes:
a. EXTRACTOR DOES NOT OPEN ENOUGH TO PASS OVER RIM OF CARTRIDGE. The most common cause of the extractor failing to open sufficiently to pass over the rim of the cartridge is chips or foreign matter lodged between the heel of the extractor and the locking lug on the bolt which houses the extractor spring plunger. Remove the extractor, extractor spring plunger assembly, and the cartridge ejector assembly in accordance with paragraph 19e. Clean all parts thoroughly. Check the extractor and extractor spring plunger for free action in their apertures in the bolt, as binding of these parts will prevent the extractor from opening.
b. OPERATING ROD BINDING. Refer to paragraphs 20d and 30.
c. WEAK OR BROKEN OPERATING ROD SPRING. Refer to paragraph 20c.
d. ROUGH OR DIRTY CHAMBER. Refer to paragraph 42 above.
e. INSUFFICIENT HEADSPACE. Refer to paragraphs 9c and 22d.
44. Failure to Feed.
Feed failures, as in the case of short recoil stoppages, may cause the weapon to close on an empty chamber. This may be caused by excessive bolt speed when the bolt moves so rapidly on the forward stroke that the ammunition does not have time to obtain its proper feeding position. This condition is often caused by unauthorized modification of the weapon, such as increasing the gas port diameter. (See par. 21f). It also may be caused by any of the following reasons:
a. INSUFFICIENT REARWARD TRAVEL FOR BOLT TO PICK UP NEXT ROUND DUE TO INSUFFICIENT RECOIL. Refer to paragraph 42 above.
b. LONG EJECTOR. If the ejector is too long and protrudes beyond the rim on the front of the bolt, the cartridge will be prevented from rising to its proper position in front of the bolt. Remove the ejector from the bolt in accordance with paragraph 19e and grind or file sufficient metal from the ejector so that it lies below the rim on the front of the bolt.
c. WORN OR IMPROPER FORMED FOLLOWER. A worn or improperly formed follower may cock or bind in its slideways in the receiver and thus prevent it from forcing the cartridge upward to its proper position in front of the bolt. Remove the follower and slide assembly and check angle of the follower as outlined in paragraph 21a. Replace a badly worn follower.
45. Bolt Fails To Release When Clip Is Latched.
This condition may be due to the following causes:
a. INSUFFICIENT RADII OR BURRS ON CATCH AND OPERATING ROD HOOKS. Insufficient radii or burrs on the hooks of the operating rod and operating rod catch may prevent them from "riding over" each other, thus preventing the bolt from releasing when the clip is inserted and latched. This condition may be remedied by lightly stoning the edges of the hooks with a fine-grained sharpening stone. Extreme care must be exercised when stoning so that the radii are not enlarged excessively as this will cause the bolt to release before the clip is latched. (See par. 46 below).
b. BULLET GUIDE LOW AT ACCELERATOR BEARING POINT. If the bullet guide is worn sufficiently at the accelerator bearing point (fig. 30), the follower arm acting upon the accelerator will fail to cam up the operating rod catch sufficiently for it to clear the operating rod hook and the bolt will not go forward when the clip has been inserted and latched. Replace bullet guide to correct this condition.
46. Bolt Releases Before Clip Is Latched.
The reverse of the causes of the bolt failing to release when the clips is inserted, listed in paragraph 45, above, may cause this condition. In addition it may be due to a defective clip latch or clip latch spring. If the radii on the hooks of the operating rod or operating rod catch are excessive and causing the bolt to go forward before the clip is latched, replace the parts. A bullet guide that is high at the accelerator bearing point should be removed from the rifle and stoned at this point until the accelerator will not cam up the operating catch sufficiently to release the operating rod until the clip is fully inserted and latched. Hand function the clip latch to see if this is not binding in the receiver and that the clip latch spring has sufficient tension to rotate the clip latch on its hinge pin. If there is binding, examine for burrs and remove by stoning or filing. If binding is due to deformation or improper dimensions, replace the clip latch. Replace a weak or broken spring.
47. Bolt Fails To Stay In Rearmost Position After Firing The Last Round. Clip Held Inside Of Gun, Jammed On The Way Out By The Bolt.
This condition may be caused by insufficient power to drive the mechanism rearward far enough for the operating rod to engage the catch (par. 42, above), a binding clip latch (par. 46,above), or the following: With the bolt fully retracted and latched and the follower at its uppermost position, examine the clip locking lug at the rear end of the clip latch to see if it clears the receiver. If it does not clear the receiver, the arm of the operating rod catch is either broken off or deformed to the extent that it does not rotate the clip latch sufficiently for the locking lug to clear the receiver and release the clip. Replace a broken or deformed operating rod catch.
48. Failure To Eject Cartridge Case.
This may be caused by a short recoil (par. 42, above) or one of the following reasons:
a. WEAK OR MISSING EJECTOR SPRING. Remove the ejectore spring from the bolt as described in paragraph 19e and replace.
b. EJECTOR BINDING. Remove the cartridge ejector from the bolt as described in paragraph 19e. Examine for burrs on ejector. Also check for burrs and foreign matter in ejector aperture in bolt.
49. Failure To Eject Cartridge Clip.
This condition may be due to one or more of the following causes:
a. CLIP EJECTOR WEAK OR BROKEN. Remove the clip ejector from the trigger housing group in accordance with FM 23-5 and replace.
b. DISTORTED CLIP.
c. DEFORMED OR BROKEN OPERATING ROD CATCH. Refer to paragraph 47, above.
50. Failure Of Bolt To Open After Fire.
This is probably due to one of the following reasons:
a. PLUGGED GAS PORT. A plugged gas port in either or both the barrel and gas cylinder will prevent the expanding gas from passing through these ports to drive the operating rod and bolt to the rear. Refer to paragraph 21c and f for corrective action.
b. LOOSE GAS CYLINDER. If the gas cylinder is sufficiently loose on the barrel of the rifle, enough of the expanding gas will escape around the barrel so that the gas acting on the piston through the gas ports will be insufficient to drive the operating rod and bolt to the rear. Check the diameter of the barrel at the gas port. (See par. 21f). If the barrel is undersize, replace. If the barrel is of correct size, replace the gas cylinder.
c. GAS CYLINDER LOCK SCREW VALVE OPEN. Refer to paragraph 20g.
51. Failure To Fire.
The possible causes of failure to fire listed below are in addition to those listed in FM 23-5:
a. WEAK OR BROKEN HAMMER SPRING. A weak or broken hammer spring may fail to drive the hammer forward against the firing pin with sufficient force to fire the cartridge. This is indicated by a light indent in the primer. Remove the spring from the trigger housing group as outlined in FM 23-5, and replace.
b. LOWER TANG ON HAMMER STRIKES STUD ON TRIGGER GUARD. The rear tang on the hammer striking the stud on the trigger housing will cushion the blow of the hammer against the firing pin or possibly even prevent it from going forward far enough to strike the firing pin. Remove the trigger housing group from the rifle, cock and release the hammer. Note if the rear tang on the hammer is striking the stud on the trigger housing. If the hammer does strike the stud, disassemble the trigger housing group as outlined in FM 23-5, and grind the tang on the hammer sufficiently to clear the stud when the hammer is in its forward position.

UPDATE: I talked with the person who built the rifle and he suggested trimming coils off of the main spring. It is a Wolff spring and he said that he believes they are made longer and with a higher spring rate than USGI. Well, six coils later it's running great! I fired the rest of the Federal M1 ammo (30rds) and some 147gr FMJBT reloads with no problems at all! Thanks for the help, and I hope this helps someone else!

A classic case. If you had told us in the beginning about the spring change, we would have told you to use original parts or put the originals back and see if it works. Once again we scratch our heads fruitlessly and the answer was simple. But tell us ALL the facts to begin with. You will note the sticky about stoppages doesn't mention Wolff springs...

I didn't know it was a Wolff spring until I talked to the builder last week. All that head banging for something so simple. Now I know!

That's usually how it is...

Whatever the case, we're glad it worked out.

Bob

I had this same problem on a Garand I rebarreled for a customer and ended up replacing the op rod spring and it worked like a champ. It is a cheap way to see if it works.