Is this original or a replacement? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.Attachment 24722Attachment 24721Attachment 24720Attachment 24719
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Is this original or a replacement? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.Attachment 24722Attachment 24721Attachment 24720Attachment 24719
I'd say real. The replacement C stocks have a 'K' in the cut off recess. That one also has all the acceptance markings on it of a gun from as assembled too.
The "S" in the cut-off is a Springfield stock. The very early 03-A4's had Springfield wood. I honestly can not tell from the photos. Really need JB or Rick to take a look.
The rifle has been thru a rebuild. But the stock is most likely an early Springfield original that was recycled. If you post the rifles serial number and barrel date we can be of more help.
Regards,
Jim
though likely a real A4 and an early A4 stock, the cut has been messed with by somebody other then the military..
all the early stocks iv looked at had much nicer cuts..iv seen nice original A4 stocks that someone did the same thing to, thinking they were helping the bolt clear.
Thanks, everyone. The bolt cut out was what had me wondering. It is on sn. 3425877 and has a 9-43 barrel.
Thanks again.
When it comes to M1903A4s, wood or otherwise, I whistle quietly, increase my pace and walk on by!! :D
I agree that it is an original and real A4 stock, and appropriate for the serial number. The later serial number range had mostly scant grip stocks. The stock could very well be original to the rifle, although the stock shows two P proof marks and some sanding both of which would indicate some level of re-build.
I would think that serial number 3425xxx would have had the RA stamp on the stock if was original to that rifle.
Dusty thanks for the additional detail. A 9/43 Barrel is correct for s/n 3425877. That rifle was probably assembled in January 1944 and would more than likely have had a contractor provided scant stock. When rifles went in for rebuild they were initially taken to pieces and the parts or at least the major subassemblies went in different directions to be inspected, refinished and possibly reused . This would account for the "faded" (sanded) original marks and the sharp block "P" mark when the rifle was reproofed. Also I note there are six sub-inspector's marks. A4's usually had five but I believe Remington had a contract to rework some of these rifles either late in the war or right after it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
As to the bolt cut out I am not ready to condemn it. It certainly looks old enough (e.g. no sign of fresh cuts sanding) Also according to reliable sources the earliest A4's had the notches cut individually by hand. Whether this was done entirely with hand tools (rasps, chisels etc) or with a manually guided power tool I don't know. But by the time rifle 3425877 was assemnbled the production engineers had arranged for automation of the process either at Remington or the stock subcontractor's. The later cuts are much more regular.
I hope this information is of assistance to you.
If it would not be too much to ask could you let me know if your rifles has a 2 groove or 4 groove barrel and if there are marks of any kind on the under side of the barrel about an inch or inch and a half back from the muzzle. Thanks.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks for reply's everyone. and thanks for the help Jim. It has a two grove barrel and underneath it has a punch mark that was made after it was finished. Here is the rebuild mark but when you said it had 6 sub inspectors marks I had noticed one was an "R" I have never seen this mark before. Could this be the Remington rebuild mark along with the Ogden stamp.
I also thought all first block A4's had this stock according to Poyer or is that a misprint. I have 1903a4 sn 3420626 with 2 grove 8-43 barrel with same punch mark that wear's a scant grip stock with OG stamp.Attachment 24772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
Dusty, The rifles that i have information on which are close to 3425877 also have Sept 43 2 groove barrels. Several of the records which bracket your rifle also have the punch mark on the under side of the barrel which seems to be unique to A4's. So to me that further suggests your barrel is original to your receiver.
A4 production started exclusively with C stocks and 4 groove barrels as time went on 2 groove barrels began to appear more frequently (roughly in June of 43). Scant stocks began to appear toward the fall of 43. My own rifle which has no rebuild indications is 3423505 and has a Keystone Scant stock and a Aug 43 2 groove barrel.
Your other rifle, 3420626 with August 43 barrel is more than likely also correct. The relationship between barrel dates and assembly dates on A4's is not linear. At two points in the middle of 43 ordnance issued instructions to Remington to keep at least 1,000 (later 2,000) assembled A4's on hand pending deliver of telescopic sights from Weaver and Lyman. Remington responded by cranking out the necessary components so a disproportionate number of A4's have August and Sept barrels.
In the past few years more and more information has been learned about WW2 rifle production. Some of the reference books do contain errors. Unfortunately one in print the stuff never goes away. Further complicating the issue is the fact that so many A4's have been rebuilt. Several years ago I started accumulating information on A4's and now have varying degrees of data on about 800 rifles. insome cases its minimal just a serial number. In others i have captured details on markings finishes etc. Due to the rebuilds its not unusual to see scant stocks and 1944 barrels on very early rifles so using information from "observed samples" has to be done with care.
I think the "R" mark may well stand for a Remington rework. After Remington it would not be surprising if the rifle was transferred to Ogden for storage where it might have been marked again.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks, Jim. Here are some of the markings off 0626 for your data base. It has a faint ord wheel and RA with AAO over FJA and an AN behind the pistol grip on the stock. I also noticed a P on the bottom of the barrel below the punch mark and above the bayo lug. Camera starting to have problemsAttachment 24808Attachment 24809Attachment 24810Attachment 24811Attachment 24812Attachment 24813
the punch mark...or prick mark on the bottom side of the barrel were the front sight would have been , is a common to A4,s and a sign of a real A4 barrel.
THe stock shown in a poor bubba attempt at an A4 stock. THe bolt cut on a correct stock is made by an initial cut with an end mill and the center is then dished out with a ball mill. Here is a picture of the correct cut.
Attachment 25089