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Acquiring a rifle for hunting from a friend. Have some pics though not handy at the moment and none of any markings.
It's been sporterized (well) at some time in the past and the stock is a replacement. Irons are long gone.
He said it's a small ring 7X57. I know Spain used them, but also some Latin American countries.
Anyone have a master list of who used 7mm's, and any general markings to look for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Six Bravo
For "who used 7mm's" the answers are to be found in Ball, "Mauser Military Rifles of the World", now in its 4th Edition. Basically Spain and all South American countries apart from Argentina and Peru. Plus China (M1895) and the Boers (ZAR, Orange Free State).
For a large ring/small ring list, see Kuhnhausen "The Mauser Bolt Actions", P.214, Mauser Action Dimension Table.
Get those 2 books and you will not only have a fairly exact answer to your questions, but a much deeper insight into "Mauserology".
Patrick
:wave:
It has not necessarily been sporterized. The 7mm Mauser action was very popular for commercial hunting rifles. Take a look at the photos in Ball - the South American Mausers usually had splendid crests on the receiver ring. If it is an ex-military action, there will be such a crest, or signs that a crest has been scrubbed and the finish touched up. Plus a military style number on the left side of the ring, usually with a small letter indicating the series. And usually a factory/arsenal name/location on the left side receiver wall.
Commercial hunting rifles may have very few markings, depending on the regulations of the country where the rifle was produced. Produce pics of all the markings you can find, and it should be possible to make a good identification...
... and get the books!
Patrick
:wave:
Agreed.....i'm a Lee-Enfield guy primarily, though my dad and brother own Gew. 98 Kar B's from 1918, both sporterized in the 60s.
Talked to him again.
Major marking are a small star of David on the receiver and it's a stepped barrel. Don't know if Israel ever used 7mm, but they used everything at first.
That "Star of David" is most likely a Brazilian crest.
I agree with sr71brd. But how about posting some pics of the markings? I am short sighted, and although I just cleaned my spectacles I can't see the markings on an invisible rifle in the USA from here:D
Patrick
:wave:
If the star is on the left rail of the receiver it's an 1893 Spanish Mauser made by Ludwig Loewe Co.Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Six Bravo
Rifle is still in transit, and the pics available are just general "it's a sporterized rifle" pics. No closeups.
Thanks to Len for the tip! That does indeed seem to be the answer.
The small six-pointed star is very well illustrated in "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" by Ball, in the section on Spain. PP 298-300 in the 3rd Edtion.
Is that what you have Victor?
(And if you don't have the book, may I heartily recommend that you get it!)
Patrick
:wave:
As i don't have it yet.....still waiting to see. It's part of a FFL-to-FFL trade so shipping, etc.....takes a bit.
WOW, I followed Patrick's recommendation to look into "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" by Ball and my copy is on the way. I can't believe they are selling that book for about $30 new in hardback. High gloss pages and color photos throughout. 400 plus pages, can't wait to get it.
Just got the rifle in, pics tomorrow.
Only markings visible are left side of the receiver:
7X57
T 6018
T 6018 repeated again on left side of receiver ring with a 'planet Saturn" looking proofmark to the left and the Star of David to the right.
Bolt release has on top a diamond mark, and on the left a Templar-type (Germanic?) cross.
No other visible markings due to the scope mount.
Magazine baseplate has the 6018 again and a flower-design proof as well. Grooved trigger, a two-position wing safety (up and down).
Not entirely sure this was a military rifle, but it has a stepped barrel and a visible hole where I'm betting the rear sight once was.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/001-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/005-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/006-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/007-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/008-2.jpg
So.......what the heck do I have?
You all wanted pics...... I delivered.
Verdict?
If it were mine, I'd take the scope mount off the front of the receiver and look for a crest. Most South American countries have a specific crest engraved there. From the markings there are, pretty hard to tell. Brazil did use the star of David symbol. The "saturn" is probably a makers mark.
The Israelis would use anything they could get their hands on that would shoot but 7mm, I don't know about that. They had plenty of surplus 8mm and the majority of their sources would have 8mm, not 7mm.
Agreed. I know of a few thousand 8mm Mausers used in Israeli hands, but no 7mm.
Though in 1948, they were using at least 1 original Winchester levergun in .44-40, they weren't exactly picky at that point.......
Aragorn's advice is good. The "saturn" can be found in the center of the Brazilean flag. At least, it is strikingly similar. The Chilean M1895 Mausers made by Ludwig Loewe also had a similar mark (see Ball). But the six-pointed star would be Brazilean. The bolt looks like an M94 (Brazilean) or M95 (Chilean) but appears to have been altered (note the screw head visible at the back) so I am not quite sure which it is. A close up of the bolt, bolt shroud and cocking piece, and bolt face would pin it down.
Patrick
:wave:
A close up of the bolt, bolt shroud and cocking piece, and bolt face would pin it down.
As requested:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/09/009-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/0081-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/0071-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/0062-1.jpg
Ideas?
Thanks for the pics. The flat-bottomed bolt face is characteristic of the M1893 Spanish action. With the six-pointed star, stepped barrel (indicating that it was originally a military rifle) etc. this appears to be an 1894 Brazilian that was sporterized. Note that not only has the bolt handle been turned down and shaped to clear a scope, but the safety lever has also been modifed to provide scope clearance, so that the hunter can carry the scoped rifle armed and with the safety "ON".
Any national crest on the receiver ring would have been scrubbed and the area reblued. Are there any traces of such work beneath the front scope mounting? Even if it has been meticulously reworked on top, if you remove the barrelled action from the stock, the underlying original bluing on the bottom of the receiver ring / below the "waterline" is going to have a slightly different sheen.
And if the rifling and crowning are OK, it probably shoots very well!
Patrick
:wave:
Haven't removed the scope mount (not about to anytime soon, though i will before mounting a scope just to ensure everything is as it should be) as I don't have a good set of screwdrivers and i know how that can jack up screws.
I figured the bolt had been bent, and the safety being 'not normal' did make me go 'hmm' since the action seemed "sporter" yet the barrel screamed "issued" so i thought maybe it was a combination/parts piece.
According to friend i got it from, it shot very well the few times he has shot it (with several hundred guns in his collection, this one was a backup to a backup to a backup to the other backup hunting rifle). Considering he's typically a sub-minute guy with any decent rifle, i have fairly good expectations. If it's under 2 MOA i'm happy.
1894 Brazilian eh? Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Six Bravo
Not bent, the original bolt handle was cut off and a new handle fitted (or the old one reshaped). It would not be possible to get that sharp corner and clean curve by bending the original handle. Likewise the safety lever is a new piece. It looks like very good work, no Bubba job, and you have a professionally converted hunting rifle. With the right ammo it should easily manage 2 MOA.
Patrick
:wave:
I could tell the safety never came off a military Mauser, but i've still seen some pretty good 'bent' bolts, so i was unsure.
It's keeping a couple Lee-Enfields company in the safe.
I beg to differ on the call of this being a 1894 Brazilian Mauser. Looking at the pictures of his receiver, and serial number, I'm pretty sure this is an 1893 Spanish Mauser, made by Loewe Berlin. The markings on his receiver match exactly with the markings on my 1893 Spanish Mauser, also manufactured by Loewe Berlin.
Here is his receiver and serial:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../12/0012-2.jpg
Note the Saturn marking before the serial number, and the faint Jewish Star to the right, and the remailns of a ground off letter to the right of it
Here is my receiver and serial:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00827-1.jpg
Note the same Saturn marking before the serial number, note the same Jewish Star, note the lettering to the right of the star. Look at the letter M in Mauser on mine, then look at the letter in the extreme right of his receiver picture. Also, the serial number on his receiver is consistent with Model 1893 Spanish Mauser's produced by Loewe Berlin.