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Hey Gang
I found a 1903 at the local gun show. It was in a beautiful pre-WW2 NM C-stock with drawing number. Its a 1934 Receiver with a 1939 National match barrel. Sight base is stamped C64112. Bolt is not a NM but is a pre-mid 1918 but it has later holes in it. But the strangest thing is the receiver. It has a A2 stamped after the 1903. I've never seen this before. Has anybody ever seen this? I can't find anything about it. Is this receiver even a NM?
I think its a match barrel phorum - US Military Firearms - Re: 1903A2
Yes I forgot that it is a NM barrel. The A2 is whats throwing me
If legitimate, the "M1903A2" indicates the barreled receiver was used as a sub-caliber device for 37mm, 57mm and 75mm artillery pieces.
The "asterisk" in the muzzle crown does not look like a legitimate Star Gauge marking to me. Look about 1/3 of the way from the receiver end of the top of the barrel. Is there a letter and 3-5 numbers stamped there?
Yes there is a A 749, and in front of that there used to be two holes for a scope block which were filled in and ground smooth.
An interesting note - Campbell lists, from ORD 9 SNL B-3, that drawing #C64112 is "Barrel and Receiver, assembly, National Match".
Wouldn't an A2 be "specially selected"?
Im curious on what Rick the librarian says about the A749 on the barrel. If it is legit is it worth anything? I'm going to put the C-stock back on it until I find out more about it.
iv seen a couple other documented NM barreled actions that were turned into A2, s...
The rear sight leaf assembly is assembled incorrectly
The bolt appears to be SHT
The bolt sleeve is S/C
I thought that all rifles after 1936 had the "Hatcher Hole"
I would question that this rifle was arsenal assembled. Perhaps from a replacement receiver during the Low Number replacemnt program.
FWIW
Cosine
I would agree its a strange build. But the finish on this thing is consistant. Its been together a long long time. LOL I didn't notice they put the sight on backwards. Good eye! I don't know why they would've put this receiver on a NM barrel, sight base assembly and pre ww2 NM C-stock. Everything is still in its original finish as well. Thin but original. As for the star mark on the edge of the barrel. We compared it to others we have and its the same size and shape. It looks odd I think because it seems to be a double strike or it was hit with a heavier hammer. Its deeper than the ones we compared it to. Deepest we have ever seen.
The barrel date looks hand stamped, should'nt it be roll stamped? The font is also different from the ones I've seen. Strang that it has filled in scope block holes in the barrel but not the receiver. Also could you post a pic of the A 749 star gage #.
Star gauge stamp on muzzle looks homemade. Not so sure about this one.
31pickemup
I certainly do not want to degrade your rifle.
There are others more expert than I on this subject but I shall venture some imfo based upon the pictures you have posted.
1. The barrel appears to be a shiny blue, not normal for a SA barrel of the era, so I suspect it has been refinished.
2. The receiver seems to be devoid of any finish. I believe that it should be a dark blue/black carbonia finish.
3. After examining the bolt picture, I believe that I see a "J5" stamped on the bottom of the safety lug. According to VI's Information, this would tend to put it in a small lot of DHT bolts that was made circa 1918 prior to the introduction of the curved bolt handle.
4. The windage knob appears to be of too early for a vintage for a 1939 rifle.
Given that it has a pre-war type C stock, I would guess that this is an assembled rifle by someone other than Springfield Armory.
My opinion for what it's worth. Looks like a nicer rifle. Only shooting will tell you the quality of the barrel. The above observations were made on the basis of your pictures. Close physical examination by an expert may tell a different story.
Oh its ok Cosine. Just trying to get some info on it. Ok Its not a bight blue barrel' its more like a black satin which is correct fot the date. The front barrel stamping was rolled on. Also the receiver has finish its just thin as hell and the pictures dont do it justice. The bolt is a straight type.Ill take more pictures of the barrel stamp after work and post them.
If the A749 is on top of the barrel, unless the numbers are obviously faked, the barrel could well be a Star Gauge. The "asterisk" just doesn't look right, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pickemup
It looks like the ejector and sear pins are "staked". Do any of you guys know if this is consistent with NM rifles? Just curious.
The trigger pin and the ejector pin are staked so that they don't fall out when the receiver assembly is used in its A2 configuration. No stock was used withthe A2 configuration.
I have a backsight similar to that, with the slider that slews off to the left with increasing range. It puzzled me as well, until someone on the Bren forum identified it as being off a Browning 30-06 machine-gun !
Take a look at the thread "Puzzle backsight" on the Bren forum!
I have never heard of National Match machine-guns, but then again, I live a sheltered life! So knowing zilch about such arcane matters as sub-caliber devices, I submit that this is a very peculiar mixmaster.
Patrick
:wave:
As I recall, the "C64112" was a drawing number used on late 1930s parts for M1903s of all "flavors", not just NM rifles. You see the same on late 1930s stocks (D1836), and handguards (D28179).
It's not a MG sight, The 1903 rear sights and the Buffington sights on Trapdoors and Krags were quite sophisticated, in addition to windage and elevation adjustment they had rotational drift compensation factored into the elevation scale as well.
Ok here are the barrel stamp and the sight stamp. I'm going to put it back together and get pics of the complete rifle in better lighting
the drawing number on teh sight base is common on barrels made after 1937, many 37 to 39 barrels had the last number hand stamped,
on a few NM rifles..they switched to a DHT bolt, as the NS bolts felt sticky in a NS action. so they smoothed them out by using a DHT bolt. J5 is a DHT bolt.
the safety sleeve, is a common change, the broke, and wore out easy, for a rifle this old, that likely seen some hard use...first as a NM rifle, then as a spotter, then its seen some hard use.
though uniuqe...its not super rare...but cool. swap the sight out{ easier to do the fix it} and she,s ready for service.
i have seen a lot of NM parts marked with Drawing numbers made after 1937..extractors, triggers, sears, sight bases, sights, buttplates, cocking rods, to name a few..mos fire control parts that were marked as such were also CV marked as well.
You have an M1903A1 National Match rifle that was issued to the USMC and, subsequently, converted to M1903A2 configuration. As described by Rick the Librarian, an M1903A2 was used as an artillery sub-caliber training device. The conversion to M1903A2 configuration required that the trigger and ejector pins be staked in place because the rifle had no stock on it. The rifle has since been converted back to National Match service rifle configuration and fitted with a National Match star gauged barrel. "C 64112" is the Ordnance drawing number for a National Match barrel and receiver assembly and "A/749" is the star gauge record number. The plugged holes you describe suggest that the barrel was taken from a USMC sniper rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pickemup
As pointed out by others, your rifle's bolt was manufactured at Springfield Armory in early 1918, was issued to the USMC, and is probably double heat treated. The bolt sleeve came from a Smith-Corona M'03-A3 and the cocking piece came from a Remington M'03-A3.
Hope this helps.
J.B.
Is this rifle in the database?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beard