educate me on the no 5

Got this today on an impulse for $125 out the door, but I dont know much about these little guys. Seems to be lacking the plethra of stamps and marks of my other enfields, and I thought they had a conical flash hinder, or did some not have one. Any insight would be appreciated.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...01_21711-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2176-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2173-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2174-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2175-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2178-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2181-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2179-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2180-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2177-1.jpg

where would be a good starting point to locate a front sight / flash hinder if I need one.

Thanks
Matt

Right here on the WTB forum. There's one that has several and may sell you one. He'll probably jump in here right away. It's not that easy to do either but they will also give you instructions. Other than that, it looks pretty much normal...

It looks good, you did right for the money, cheap rifle. Your rifle is Ok except someone cut off all the bits around the flash hider, a pretty common practise a few years back.
Numrich gun parts can do you a flash hider and retaining pins for under $35, I know cos I just bought one yesterday. ps they come in two ID diameters, one for a No4 conversion, so make sure you get the one that fits your barrel. It can be a home change over and I've also had one that was a bear, but usually gentle heating with oxy or similar will free them off. Exporting can be an issue, plus Numrich add quite a big surcharge for exported items, so if a member has one you could consider it too. Numrich is listed on enfield resource dot com.

Mattgunguy,
Numrich ones are a copy, if you want a orginal Lawerence Ordanacne in Sydney (Australia) has the orginal and will post overseas.

Myles

Thank you folks. Gives me a starting point. It'll be a few weeks anyways before i can do anything anyways. I'm not going to wait to to get to the range though.

Very nice, and all correct as you have her, lightening cuts and all. Lot of these have been faked the last few years, but this one is the real thing. Fazakerley, November, 1945. They used that ugly electro-pencil for some time late in the war and afterwards; I have no idea why they didn't use a proper marking-roll. Proofmarks are all correct. The "England" was put on when it was sold off.

You got a REALLY good deal!:D:D:D

Do let us know how she shoots.
.

:madsmile:It amazes me they way they do the work with that electric pencil. This rifle looks like it was as broad as a paintbrush, where as the writing on mine is so faint that I had to use cracktesting dye to highlight it enough to read.
It's Either a feast or a famine in this game. Good price though.

Is 'T 2' the serial number? That's where mine show electro-penciled 5 character serial numbers. Is 'T 2' electro-penciled on your bolt handle? Nice purchase. Cheers, Don

The bolt matchs I think. So faint its hard to tell. Should have the front sight fixed and a bayonet in the next few weeks :D. Goes well with the rest of my little enfield family.

I looked at the T2. It's not a factory number as they are a more modern/recent number stamp type. It looks as though another number has been linished out under the paint

As a matter of interest, why do you have to have ENGLAND on your rifles - apart from the obvious? Since when?

The country of origin stamp is an American government requirement thanks to its Gun Control Act of 1968. I've been told that Act was the was a direct consequence of the JFK asassination; Kennedy having been shot with an imported WWII Italian surplus army sniper Carcano rifle.

Yup. Uncel sam has some stupid ideas and some not so stupid ideas ( not that i can think of one off hand ). Here are some better daylight pictures.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2184-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2185-1.jpg

You might find it goes back to the 1930 Tariff Act: (a) Marking of articles
Except as hereinafter provided, every article of foreign origin (or its container, as provided in subsection (b) hereof) imported into the United States shall be marked in a conspicuous place as legibly, indelibly, and permanently as the nature of the article (or container) will permit in such manner as to indicate to an ultimate purchaser in the United States the English name of the country of origin of the article.

It just got worse after 1968 with the addition of the importer required. Some of us U.S. collectors put a little premium on just 'England' as demonstrating a pre 68 import. Cheers, Don

So something without the ENGLAND is a pre 1968 import - correct?

Does this mark and the later dealer marking affect values in any way?

Just an 'ENGLAND' would be pre 68, but in compliance with the Tariff Act of 1930. Importer stamps, post 1968. Cheers, Don

The "England" stamp is a country of origin stamp that was applied according to US law prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968. I'm not sure if the stamp was applied in England before export or here in the USA upon arrival. Post US GCA 1968 import markings include the country of origin, caliber, and abbreviated company name of the importer.

Thanks Brian, hoping you'd wake up in the Colony and clarify that! Cheers, Don

It's interesting because you can date a rifle as to when it came into the US. Does the marking affect it's value BDL?

Thanks for the info

Im going to cry. Lawrance Ordnance cant ship parts firearms parts out of the country. Stupid goverment laws, but what can you do. settle for copies. Does anyother source exist for original front sights. It's the little things that make you beat your head aginst the wall. :sos: :banghead:

When you get around to shooting it, wearing ear protection is a must. Those puppies have a real bark!

There's lots of this stuff going on right now because of the UN (can't ship overseas) requiring licensing to export small arms and parts like N05 parts, Metford parts, Silkworm Missiles (same set of laws, believe it or not :banghead: ) etc. - try a supplier in the UK - they seem to be less concerned about the UN than anyone other than the Czechs (Czechs are pretty unlikely to have your No5 part). If you'd like, I can check with my local guy - I'd bet he's got one (or 30) hidden away somewhere, but he's not likely to have the pins- unless you're very lucky. Drop me a PM.

Probally could be a new thread, but oh well. Thought it would be niffty to put up some side by side comparison photos. The victims are a 1944 Lithgow no1 mk3, 1944 BV no4 mk1, and 1945 Fazakerly no5 mk1. Enjoy.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2243-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2244-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2245-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2246-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2249-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...101_2250-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

So something without the ENGLAND is a pre 1968 import - correct?

Does this mark and the later dealer marking affect values in any way?

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The "England" stamp is innocuous enough to be largely overlooked. The later "importers stamp" is typically larger and is seen as a negative to many collectors, myself included.

Those lightening cuts on the reinforce!.
As a novice, I have been fretting my socks off over chamber pressure and the delicate nature of these Lee Enfields and then I see this No5 barrel with its spooned out helpings of metal removed from the point at which the chamber is most likely to fail.
I recently examined a No4 barrel tested to destruction and it failed at or close to the front of where those cuts begin, somewhere around the shoulder of the cartridge.
Does the No5 produce significantly less chamber pressure than the No4 due to the shorter barrel perhaps, or were the barrels produced to a different specification?.

I'd like to know more about the method used test the No4 barrel to destruction JSS. We tried to 'blow' one for a project but while we severely damaged several new ones, we couldn't get one to replicate a breech explosion that would blow the sealed breech. We formed the opinion that you wouldn't be able to get enough 'dynamite' in the case to blow it

I have seen thousands of No4's and 5's but never seen a breech explosion of the type you describe. On that basis, I'd stop fretting right now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I'd like to know more about the method used test the No4 barrel to destruction JSS. We tried to 'blow' one for a project but while we severely damaged several new ones, we couldn't get one to replicate a breech explosion that would blow the sealed breech. We formed the opinion that you wouldn't be able to get enough 'dynamite' in the case to blow it

I have seen thousands of No4's and 5's but never seen a breech explosion of the type you describe. On that basis, I'd stop fretting right now!

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Peter i would think a case full of a pistol powder would do the trick easyly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattgunguy

Probally could be a new thread, but oh well

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Yep, you're right, this is called HI JACKING. Not so important if it's a boring irrelavent thread, we probably all have been guilty of it at some stage, but still quite offputting to someone closely following a thread.

Ment it as a comarison of the no 5 to the earlier rifles. I have been educating myself since my original posting. Was hoping that the pictures could be of help to someone. As for my stupid words " Probally could be a new thread, but oh well", that was just dumb. my apologies to those who might find it offensive.